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Discussion: Strava being used to catch cyclists in France

in: Orienteering; General

Mar 22, 2020 2:55 AM # 
I'll admit I've only skimmed the article so far but I think attackpointers will find this an interesting little read.
Mar 22, 2020 3:29 AM # 
Attackpoint being used to identify internet trolls. More at 11.
Mar 22, 2020 4:49 AM # 
Meanwhile in Australia people who are meant to be self isolating are being contacted by Red Cross for welfare checks and advising them they're not actually sticking to quarantine and subsequently not being reported because it's 'not Red Cross' job' to report people. We'll look back on this when everyone in the country has the virus and wonder if more could have been done.
Mar 22, 2020 6:49 AM # 
That article just does not ring true when it comes to fining people on the basis of what is posted to Strava. Do they catch speeders the same way? If not, why not?
Mar 22, 2020 6:55 AM # 
Speeders as in motorists? Do people post driving onto Strava?
Mar 22, 2020 6:58 AM # 
Speeders as in cyclists. They are subject to the same laws and yes, in France as in Ottawa's Gatineau Park for example it is fairly easy for good cyclists to exceed the posted speed limit.
Mar 22, 2020 7:21 AM # 
Thanks, wasn't really thinking that mindset because I don't tend to be in a position myself in breaking speed laws (I'm usually on my own rather than in a bunch where you can go faster), other than in Kings Park where it's 40kph and on the downhill it's very easy to get above that.
Mar 22, 2020 2:52 PM # 
@gordhun, I imagine that's because it wouldn't stand up in court. However at the moment is anything much going to court?
Mar 22, 2020 3:08 PM # 
The trivial defense in court for speeding would be "I hacked my tracklog so I'd look more impressive on Strava".
Mar 23, 2020 10:39 AM # 
If the Oz Red Cross reported people for anything, nobody would talk to them.
Mar 23, 2020 11:59 AM # 
Don't give them any aid then. Need to sort the virus spreaders out somehow. Plus if they're already out and about they obviously don't need it.
Mar 24, 2020 12:39 AM # 
To sort out the virus spreaders in a meaningful way, everybody would have to be tested (like in South Korea) -- something that the US should be working toward...
Mar 24, 2020 1:58 AM # 
We're the opposite here, you only qualify for testing if you show symptoms and have been in contact with a known carrier or had recent international travel. So useless in other words.
Mar 24, 2020 2:23 AM # 
To quote our esteemed health minister (probably the usual government spin):

"In terms of progress, with regards to testing, the latest figures is there have now been approximately 147,000 pathology tests carried out in Australia.

On a per-capita basis on the advice from the National Incidence Centre, that means we now have 557.9 approximately tests per 100,000 or greater than 0.5% of the population.

This is on the advice I have, higher than even Korea, which has done a magnificent job with their testing on a per-capita basis."
Mar 24, 2020 9:23 AM # 
Sorry but I fail to see this fascination with testing.
If a person looks as if he has Covid-19 then treat him as if he has Covid-19. For statistical purposes call it presumptive Covid.
If a person thinks she might have Covid-19 self isolate, drink plenty of water and do the other things doctors tell us to do.
If people are worried about getting Covid 19 then just stay away from others. Self isolate yourself. You do not need the government to hold your hand.
Mar 24, 2020 1:45 PM # 
You can have, and spread, the disease without having symptoms. U.S. Sen. Rand Paul got tested but continued going to meetings in DC. Six days later the test is positive. We'll see where that goes....
Mar 24, 2020 2:02 PM # 
Another important use of San Jose something like 50 firefighters are in quarantine. Those firefighters can't work. If they can be tested and are OK, then they can work. If they can't get tested, they don't work. As the number of firefighters in quarantine increase, the capacity of the fire department to respond to fire and medical emergencies goes down.
Mar 24, 2020 2:03 PM # 
It's also hard to see how we can leave our houses in a few weeks/months and manage to keep the virus under control if we don't have some kind of testing/tracing/isolating program.
Mar 24, 2020 3:01 PM # 
They don't test in the UK. When they did, they were getting <5% positive tests. Not surprising: normally, we have maybe a million people with recent cold/flu symptoms at any given time. We now have 6500 confirmed coronavirus cases. Certainly this is quite wrong, but treating it as a million "presumptive covid" is surely worse. What I'd like to know, but can't find out, is what the chances of actually having actual covid are, if you have symptoms (which, for avoidance of doubt, I don't).
Mar 24, 2020 5:09 PM # 
So how does UK arrive at a number of confirmed cases without testing? Confirmed how?

In the county where I'm holed up there is now an emergency directive stating that if you are tested you must self-quarantine until you receive a negative test result. And it takes what, 2-3 days to get test result back? (At least until the new 45 minute test becomes available.) Wondering if this might backfire and cause people who have been in contact with confirmed positive cases to refuse testing unless and until they develop symptoms.
Mar 24, 2020 5:25 PM # 
@fossil. I have no idea!
The government makes statements like (today)

As of 9am on 24 March 2020, a total of 90,436 people have been tested, of which 82,359 were confirmed negative and 8,077 were confirmed positive. 422 patients in the UK who tested positive for coronavirus (COVID-19) have died."

...and so the papers say we have 8077 cases. The published ratio of positive to negative tests is going up steadily, but who is getting tested is a mystery.
Mar 24, 2020 5:44 PM # 
Big Jon:
The royal family and top politicos are almost certainly getting tests done (can't have the great and good collapsing on TV), I also imagine those who present at a hospital/testing centre with severe symptoms are tested and, in Scotland at least, there is Community Testing - this apparently was being done in 40 GP practices but is being (maybe have been) extended to over 200 practices. I think the idea is to try to get an idea of likely proportion of people with the virus.
Mar 24, 2020 6:04 PM # 
Meanwhile there are non-official reports being leaked from Wuhan residents that the reason Wuhan started reporting days with 0 new cases is because testing there has ceased. Nonetheless people are still dying there. And WHO dutifully reports the official statistic of 0 new cases each day. And the press eats it up.
Mar 24, 2020 6:19 PM # 
Agreed, if someone believes they have COVID-19, they should act as if they do whether or not they have test results. However, that doesn't address one of the biggest problems with COVID-19, which is the lack of symptoms in a large proportion of those who have it. The only way to address that, if it were possible, is to test everyone, whether of not they have symptoms and whether or not they are subject to particular risk factors. Here's the result for one small Italian town that did so.
I'd earlier seen an article about another small Italian town that tested everyone as well with a comparable result.
So it's not just those with symptoms or those that are concerned about getting it that need to isolate themselves, but to the extent they can everyone should do so. We're all currently potential carriers.
Mar 24, 2020 6:30 PM # 
Cristina (Happy Birthday, btw) your observation is dead on. Ultimately it comes down to juggling the tradeoff between the economy and public health. If health were the top priority we would isolate people sufficiently to keep demand on the health care system within its max capacity. But that would realistically take 1-2 years (or more depending on various what-if's) and put the economy in a nasty state for a much longer period. With that being an unthinkable cost, the tradeoff math(s) begin. Until there's a proven vaccine the best possible scenario is keep the travel bans in place and use rolling lockdowns that allow everyone to sequentially catch the virus, get appropriate treatment, and (hopefully) emerge healthy and immune.
Mar 24, 2020 7:32 PM # 
Has anyone seen permanent lung damage rate estimates? Higher than death rate I think. Surviving is great, still having healthy enough lungs to do O again is even greater.
Mar 24, 2020 9:06 PM # 
Of course. However when politicians are fighting over saving the economy, social programs, and big business instead of prioritizing saving lives first, we might have to ask ourselves where O falls in the priority spectrum. Yes, lungs are being damaged, both from scar tissue and from air pressure due to ventilator use. And people are dying without being allowed to say goodbye to their families other than by videoconference app ... if someone even has the time to facilitate that.
Mar 24, 2020 10:31 PM # 
In Madrid, it sounds like they don't even have time to say goodbye. The doctors have to call the families to say the paitients have passed and that the bodies will be cremated.

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