Discussion: Notes from the hills

Here are a few notes, they will be put on the event website shortly.

1. Second Amendment: A snapshot of a typical environment: Five parties yesterday. Two firing away from the course, into private property, no chance to hit anyone on the map. Three could possibly have someone in the line of fire going to two of the checkpoints. That's two out of 60–70. Both are low-value CPs. One of these three parties had a safety lookout, and I talked to another one, their schedule doesn't overlap with ours.

It is completely predictable where the target practicers may be; all inner roads are closed, so they can only be on the main road firing into the closest hillside. As long as you are a ridge or more away from the main road, there is no chance you'll get hit, not even with ricochets. A winning course strategy for the 4- and 8-hour divisions does not include the main road. On the 24 hours, you will want to come down to the road—during the dark, when no shooting action has ever been observed. That's why we are keeping the two affected CPs.

2. Weather: Just a tad warmer than at the WRC, quite pleasant. Lower 90s for highs, upper 50s for lows. Nice breeze all through. The warmest part of the day is between noon and 4 pm.

3. Rattlesnakes: Zero so far. One coyote, many foxes, they did say things.

4. Downed power line: It's a minor unmapped power line that's not really downed, but is so slack in several places that the sole wire is no more than a foot off the ground. It looks live. Sorry I didn't bring a multimeter to say for sure.

5. Camping: Contrary to what the website used to say, camping on the site will be available Friday night through Sunday morning. There is a bathroom, but no running water.

6. Hash house schedule: We're having a roving hash house! (but a stationary start and finish). The HH is in a corner of the area. We will move it to a central location during the night, and will serve food there for the benefit of 24-hour teams. Food service hours are: until 6 pm at the start/finish (snack for 4-hr teams, lunch for 8-hr teams), 7 pm until 3 am at the central location (dinner), and 4 am until 11 am at the start/finish again (breakfast). The central location will be unstaffed outside the hours of 7 pm to 3 am. We can take a bag of your stuff to the central location.

7. Reflectors: There won't be any. It's too easy. During the day, for about 50% of feasible CP-to-CP legs, you can see your next CP from the previous one—if you know where to look. At night, had there been reflectors, you wouldn't even have to know where to look. Just scan the hillside with your monster beam and capture the reflection 1 to 1.5 km away. So, you'll have to work for it.

So, pack your track shoes (it is really that friendly!) and see you in two weeks!

Ok, I'm not sure if your description of the target shooting is helping me or making me more worried. Can't you just say, "you won't have to worry about it" or "be careful, and wear a kevlar vest and helmet" or something very clear?

I thought this was funny, "There could possibly have someone in the line of fire going to two of the checkpoints. That's two out of 60–70. Both are low-value CPs."

So......you might get shot if you go for the low value CP's. The take away for me is: only go for the high value CP's.

I'm still coming and bringing my son, but I may attach a tall bright red flag to my pack!

you are probably safer in panoche than stopping to eat in Fresno.

The explanation is above. You will not want to go for these two (out of 60+) low-value CPs (out of 16 low-value CPs) in the 8 hours. It doesn't make sense. These CPs are on the course so that 24-hr teams can cross the road after dark. You will want to stay on the same side of the road and if you do, you will NOT encounter target shooters.

Once you get the map, you will see exactly what I mean. The possible impact zones will be shown with some margin.

The reason I don't say "don't worry, you'll be safe" is that there is a real danger and the competitors should exercise judgment to keep them out of the danger zone.

Thanks, V. I'll still bring blaze orange.

Wearing orange is always a good idea. The fall rogaines I organize in Washington State often coincide with at least one hunting season, so we require the wearing of orange and provide safety vests for participants that don't have one.

Water update: There will be three water stations, plus the remote aid station. When the aid station/remote hash house is unstaffed, it will still have water.

This is enough water, but perhaps less than at some other events. We are limited by the logistics of where you can drive; parts of the area are entirely roadless, and others require better driving skills than I possess. So, your route may involve a loop or two to come back to the same water station; the course allows for that with minimum penalty. Count on having a 5-liter water carrying capacity per person.

I tried to run a MTBO event through a firing range once but they kicked us out. Spoilsports.

A full set of event-day notes is posted.

Three could possibly have someone in the line of fire going to two of the checkpoints. That's two out of 60–70. Both are low-value CPs. One of these three parties had a safety lookout, and I talked to another one, their schedule doesn't overlap with ours.

The explanation is above. You will not want to go for these two (out of 60+) low-value CPs (out of 16 low-value CPs) in the 8 hours. It doesn't make sense. These CPs are on the course so that 24-hr teams can cross the road after dark. You will want to stay on the same side of the road and if you do, you will NOT encounter target shooters.

Why would anyone set a course where this is an issue? Just one more reason this sport isn't taken seriously. I've never had to deal with this on an ultra. Then again, they tend to think it s a bad idea to run part of the course thru a shooting zone. After 20 hours on the course, its the last thing people want to have (or are even able) to think about, and most people understand this.

So, apparently, if I read the quotes above correctly, there is a risk of being shot, and part of the race strategy is planning when to capture the checkpoints in question to minimize your odds of being shot. Nice sport. I hope the insurance premiums are paid up.

But, there's more. This is an international sport. It should be course setter's notes agnostic. Meaning, if those reading (or are unable to read or correctly comprehend) the notes are non-proficient in English, they should still be able to participate without artificial hazards they are unaware of due to language. Everyone expects natural hazards such as snakes, other wildlife, and so forth. This is materially different.

Finally, I hope, unlike here, that the website and printed course setters notes in question don't head this issue with "Second Amendment". I don't know how many international participants will get it. Then again, maybe there aren't any international participants. Maybe some domestic participants won't get it either, tho. Who knows? Maybe a better approach is to say -- you may be shot if you go for these CPs at the wrong time, and maybe in every language recognized by the EU.

Whatever. Better yet, do the right thing and remove all the CPs in question, no one will notice, and everyone will sleep easier -- the organizers, the competitors, the fans, and even those exercising their 2nd amendment rights. From the above quote, the CPs don't appear material, so why not remove them? It amazes me that a sanctioned event is being conducted in this manner, while the sanctioning body sleeps at the switch.

Yep, a nice "sport" we have in Pennsylvania. I had the honor of having my orangewear checked at the start of a sanctioned A event at Hickory Run in 2010. And this was for hazards that aren't in a known location, they could have been anywhere on the map at any time, any one of 100+ checkpoints. Perhaps go ahead and ask the Sanctioning Committee to pull that sanctioning retroactively, since it was asleep at the switch at the time sanctioning was granted? And this "orienteering association" that hosted it, maybe the national organization should think a bit about the insurance premiums it should charge it.

Now seriously:

* The CPs in question will stay. They are safe during the dark.

* You will never encounter a target shooter on a properly planned course.

This is perhaps all I should have said. We aren't blessed with having a large number of expansive areas around the Bay Area, all come with strings attached. Having to plan your route in a way that avoids a certain area (marked on the map) during the day is one of the lesser strings. Safety comes first for us and we wouldn't be sending you out if we didn't think it was safe.

2011 NAOC champs at Bushkill Falls, PA ( about 30 miles east of Gouldsboro, where i grew up). First day of pheasant season!!!

perhaps the sanctioning committee for that event should have made an addition to the mandatory equipment list, to include a Smith and Wesson hip compass.

There is some sort of Port-o-let or pit toilet at the camp/start, correct?

^ because there ain't no woods...

Exactly! It looks like a short grass prairie, and there were no visible shrubs to hide my white ass.

Yes. One toilet. Has TP. Just checked.