Discussion: I wasquite surprised to find out we won!
in: DarthBalter; DarthBalter > 2007-07-08
Jul 9, 2007 8:02 PM
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Thanks, Valeriy felt better than I did after 24 Hrs, I think he was using his fat reserves, when I was down to muscle's proteins. And we won. Period, all categories. Unfortunately, the real good team of Joe and Scott spent too much time on badly placed controls and we did not, and we got super lucky on one of those misplaced - mismapped area controls where we hit it by accident on our rout in.
Jul 9, 2007 8:48 PM
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Holy crap! You beat THEM?!
Now I know we are living in a Balter-licious world.
Now I know we are living in a Balter-licious world.
Jul 9, 2007 9:39 PM
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nice job. I am very proud of you.... I cant blive you beat Joe!!!! Could they have made that many mistakes.??You are taling about a very strong team.
Jul 9, 2007 10:15 PM
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Come on, did you carry Valeriy? No wonder your back has been hurting.
Did you mix some "special" powder in with the Hydralyte?
Did you mix some "special" powder in with the Hydralyte?
Jul 9, 2007 10:52 PM
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I talk to Joe shortly after our finish - he was pissed to say the least - too many controls were questionable and one just totally mismapped. What made things worse that questionable controls were surrounded by very unpleasant vegetation to say the least - so the blood loss on those controls was big, we just got lucky.
Jul 10, 2007 1:10 AM
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Hydralyte worked but that is not the ultimate test - SBM on a day like today - is!
Jul 10, 2007 7:56 AM
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Very impressive! That's a lot of controls ....
Did you find anything wrong with 45? We found it eventually, but lost a lot of time on it; it seemed to be further north than indicated, and the pastures seemed much more complex than how they were mapped. We seemed to check a LOT of field corners, more than were shown on the map.
Did you find anything wrong with 45? We found it eventually, but lost a lot of time on it; it seemed to be further north than indicated, and the pastures seemed much more complex than how they were mapped. We seemed to check a LOT of field corners, more than were shown on the map.
Jul 10, 2007 4:31 PM
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Joe:
hour lost at 77 - thick area, cp placement questionable
15 lost at 85 - placement seemed too far west
hour lost at 71 - cp placement was 100m too far s/w. too close to the road and in an area I would describe as a jungle
hour lost at 80 - cp placed about a third of a mile too far west per Gregs findings, "open" field incorrectly mapped. another jungle area with a carpet of poison ivy.
15 lost at 69 - very overgrown "open" fields, more like thick forest (trees over 50 ft tall)
20 lost at 70 - approached from the north and west, more forested "open" fields. very confusing, very tired and very frustrating.
this was my worst rogaine experience ever. map was horrible, cp placement was bad.
congrats to greg and valery for a job well done.
15 lost at 85 - placement seemed too far west
hour lost at 71 - cp placement was 100m too far s/w. too close to the road and in an area I would describe as a jungle
hour lost at 80 - cp placed about a third of a mile too far west per Gregs findings, "open" field incorrectly mapped. another jungle area with a carpet of poison ivy.
15 lost at 69 - very overgrown "open" fields, more like thick forest (trees over 50 ft tall)
20 lost at 70 - approached from the north and west, more forested "open" fields. very confusing, very tired and very frustrating.
this was my worst rogaine experience ever. map was horrible, cp placement was bad.
congrats to greg and valery for a job well done.
Jul 10, 2007 5:35 PM
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wasn't it BQE, BQE, BQE ? Joe, those things happen, you will bounce right back!
Jul 10, 2007 7:45 PM
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SBM - 42 km, 2000+ meters climb, very rocky, Suffern to Bear Mountain trail - Bernie has HVO record - Just over 6 Hrs on a hot day.
Jul 11, 2007 12:24 AM
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Congratulations! Gary and I (SLOC) certainly know that you are the team to try for! If we ever come in ahead, we'll suspect that you have an injury. :)
We hoped we might have a chance since you had a substitution, but no such luck.
We were disappointed, but not surprised, that you were well ahead of the 2nd and 3rd place teams.
We hoped we might have a chance since you had a substitution, but no such luck.
We were disappointed, but not surprised, that you were well ahead of the 2nd and 3rd place teams.
Jul 11, 2007 12:47 AM
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I don't really think it was a rogaine to miss. Between Adventure Races and Rogaines, Gary and I have decided that maps and control placement are estimates at best. Race directors certainly don't give any sympathy, that's for sure. This race course didn't really seem better or worse than others.
It was pretty nice to be in New York with pretty flat terrain for once!
It was pretty nice to be in New York with pretty flat terrain for once!
Jul 11, 2007 1:53 AM
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nothing more furstating than a bad map or worse, bad placement. Orienteering is about percision. Wasting your time looking for poorly placed controls is... a wast of time.
I have learnt from Greg. Bad control setting will ruing an otherwise good event.
I have learnt from Greg. Bad control setting will ruing an otherwise good event.
Jul 11, 2007 4:05 AM
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Joe:
The problem with the map was that it was an OCAD version of an out of date USGS quad. the trail additions were far from accurate and the vegetation was useless on many occasions. why make a map unless it is going to be an improvement over the original USGS? the issue with the control placement was that locations were picked that were vague or in a jungle of vegetation. in my opinion the best rogaines require more route choice and decision making than fumbling around within the circle trying to locate the flag. this area should never be used with that map again. the area should probably never again be used because it invites cheating. after the race I noticed several routes drawn on maps that crossed through the out of bounds (all white areas basically). I am sure that most of the teams obeyed the rules, but who knows what goes on out there.
Jul 11, 2007 9:18 AM
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I agree with Joe about the map, and also about the objective of rogaines should be strategy and decision making and not spending forever trying to find the control once you're in the right area.
A rogaine was held on this map in 1999, which I participated in, and I don't recall anywhere near the level of frustrations as with the 2007 rogaine. One problem may be that the map really needed to be updated; in other words, maybe it was OK in 1999 but things had changed enough in 8 years, that it wasn't OK anymore. Or maybe the control placement in 1999 took into account the lack of precision in the map, and avoided areas where things were obviously confusing.
As far as private land, unfortunately that's the nature of most of the areas that CNYO has for rogaines. There's generally a mix of private and public lands. I wouldn't disqualify an area because of that, but maybe the controls can be set in a way where there is less of a temptation to cheat by crossing private lands.
A rogaine was held on this map in 1999, which I participated in, and I don't recall anywhere near the level of frustrations as with the 2007 rogaine. One problem may be that the map really needed to be updated; in other words, maybe it was OK in 1999 but things had changed enough in 8 years, that it wasn't OK anymore. Or maybe the control placement in 1999 took into account the lack of precision in the map, and avoided areas where things were obviously confusing.
As far as private land, unfortunately that's the nature of most of the areas that CNYO has for rogaines. There's generally a mix of private and public lands. I wouldn't disqualify an area because of that, but maybe the controls can be set in a way where there is less of a temptation to cheat by crossing private lands.
Jul 11, 2007 6:41 PM
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I agree with Joe that a conventional USGS would have been a better map. The OCAD suggests that the map is accurate (which this map wasn't), while a USGS would suggest the map is very approximate.
When Gary and I place controls in the SLOC rogaine in 2008, we'll be very careful about placement. The most common mistakes I've experienced (and I've never been to a rogaine without one or more bad placements), is due to lazy placements from roads.
When we went to control 77, those "woods mapped as fields", were much more than 8 years old, so the map was bad in 1999 too. If 1999 was well received, it had to be because controls were not placed in questionable areas.
When Gary and I place controls in the SLOC rogaine in 2008, we'll be very careful about placement. The most common mistakes I've experienced (and I've never been to a rogaine without one or more bad placements), is due to lazy placements from roads.
When we went to control 77, those "woods mapped as fields", were much more than 8 years old, so the map was bad in 1999 too. If 1999 was well received, it had to be because controls were not placed in questionable areas.
This discussion thread is closed.