Discussion: Sprint Series 2008

what AP think about starting the 2008 Sprint series, earlier like dec 1st- ??
that way we might have couple of sprints in Canada as well . and also to have people play for real money ,then have organizers pay a 10 $ for a 30-40 pointers sprint , and 15 $ or so for the 50's. slightly change the rules so from lets say 6 sprints in order to get into final you must have at least one in "the other country"( Canada , or US ) or at least 500 km/310 miles away from your home. eh ??

I like the pot of money for prizes idea. With the very reasonable suggested "sanctioning fee" scheme there would be about $2600 to split amongst the winners. Easily $500 for the male and female champs. That sounds like a good incentive - as cash or as a travel/training grant. And maybe the commissioner could take a small cut to offset costs (?).

I don't particularly like the distance qualification, even though I'd probably meet it by default since I basically have to travel over 500km from home to get in any significant number of sprints. Seems like the idea is to encourage lots of sprints, not necessarily to encourage people to travel far to get to them. If you can get to 6 (or 8) sprints within 500km of your home, all the better...

Concerning Nick's first suggestion, while the sprint series would well benefit from the income, we may actually discourage lots of sprints by adding one more hurdle to those who organize the sprints at the local level.

The only sprint I could manage this season was a 500k drive. Therefore, I have no problem with that suggestion.

I am with Cristina here. A modest fee like $10-$15 per sprint for sanctioning is a small price to pay. It is one or two competitor's entry fees.

I like the idea of (more) prize money, both as a competitor (who might aspire to win some), and as an orienteering evangelist, who thinks it might generate wider interest among potential racers or the media.

I'm not sure it's a good idea to ask for a sanctioning fee. It may indeed discourage event organizers from submitting their events for the series. Maybe it could be made optional (for additional points, although maybe this doesn't make sense from a sporting standpoint), or could apply only to higher point-valued regional and national-level sprints.

the idea of 10-15 $ is to raise the coin , of course, and the cost is modic..now organizers would really benefit -advertising their event(s) as part of North american Sprint series. like j-man says is one or two competitor fee. and with the name- there will be another one or two..THAT'S FOR SURE.
as for distance is to encourage potentially top 50 (or so athletes ) to gain points at least once outside their home turf. however majority will qualify. i believe we have to start somewhere. our club Stars -we'll organize at least 2-3 and happy to contribute to raise some cash. in Europe there are events that winners are attracted by some cash.

Maybe it could be made optional (for additional points, although maybe this doesn't make sense from a sporting standpoint)

I think if it were made optional - a "suggested donation" - there wouldn't be any negative impact to scheduling. And I think most organizers wouldn't hesitate to donate $10-15, especially if they don't feel like the *have* to. :-)

Suggested donation is a great plan. Small meet organizers need not worry about additional duties and other members within the organizing club might submit a suggested donation on the side. So where would we send the money???

Prize money idea sounds ok to me. Suggested donation works for me. An actual sanctioning fee might discourage small clubs from registering their sprints.

I don't think a distance incentive is necessary, and also from the perspective that we are trying to keep our sport as environmentally friendly as possible, I don't think we should be trying to create additional incentives for orienteers to travel farther than necessary to reach events. Better to encourage more sprints to make them more available close to home.

Suggested donation for 30-pointers sounds great. There is no reason not to require a sanctioning fee for 40 and 50 pointers though, and perhaps we could make them open to anyone at anytime rather than restricting which sprints can get the high points. By assigning high enough sanctioning costs for the extra points, the market will automatically decide which sprints will be able to afford the extra cost and as such only organizers who feel their sprint will attract enough people and generate enough revenue to offset the higher sanctioning fee will opt for the extra points.

And we could offer a sanctioning fee reduction for races that are US or Canadian Team fundraisers as an alternative to (or in addition to) the current 5-point bonus.

As for a travel requirement, I really can't see how that fits into the goals for the Sprint Series.

well put by John.( regarding donation for 30 pointers , sanctioning fee for higher ones )
the travel requirement : INHO , since there will be $ at the end , i think will make sense that minimum one result should come from a different area rather then my back yard ( so i don't compete for big $ with results within 20 miles range let's say). to qualify in the final top 10 lets say and fight for the $, one should be there running more then ..just around the corner. intention is not for everyone , but at the end of summer , top 10 or 16 whatever should gain points from at least one event somewhere else ( and i am sure they will ). its also nice to have top NA sprinters at your event , and "show" them to general public.

I like the optional sanctioning fee, and I don't see a problem with the "sanctioned" events being worth extra points. Our local sprints are effectively "free", since they are a bonus event associated with a regular club event, and very few people come for just the sprint.

A travel requirement seems unnecessary, since to "compete for big $", you would have to perform very well at the finals races, to catch people who have traveled to the higher-point events.

You could probably swell the pot by getting organizations to bid (financially) for the right to host the finals. I'm not quite sure what the present arrangement is.

"Better to encourage more sprints to make them more available close to home."-mikeminium

I agree, especially since we weren't able to organize even one sprint in the Rocky Mountain Area. I'll work to change that for next year...

I totally agree with the sanctioning fee and all it's benefits. Sure it's a bit of extra work on the organizers part but the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.

I'm curious what PG thinks of this idea?

How about adding Sprint Relay to the Sprint Series Finals schedule just for fun of it.

This all assumes that there *will* be a 2008 Sprint Series. I think everyone hopes that there will be, but it does take people to do the organizing and I really hope people are (still) willing.

Maybe some of the sanctioning fee revenue could be used to pay the organizers (currently Boris and PG) an honorarium.

Hey, Ratlaf, I realize there is a natural tendency for folks to put Wyoming up on a pedestal and not include it as part of the Mountain West, but aside from the really cool license plate and all the pretty cowgirls and Mrs. America, it's not *that* different. And unless I've miscounted, we had 5 sprints up here in Laramie alone.

Swampfox: I thought those sprints were not included in the Sprint Series?

My understanding has been (and who knows, maybe I have it wrong) is that all you need to do to have an event included is to make sure you send the results along. Nobody asked me to, and I never bothered, figuring the odds that anybody from out this way would travel to the Sprint final were negligible.

First, some general comments on the Sprint Series.

We are now coming to the end of the third year. As we think about making changes, I think it is useful to look at what the goals have been, back to when the Series was first set up late in 2003.

The first goal was driven by the fact that sprints had gotten on the the WOC program and were showing up as part of other major events, but there weren't many sprint opportunities in North America. Our team needed to get more experience running sprints. That was the primary goal, more sprints. The Series, with its point system leading up to a Finals, certainly accomplished that, regardless of whether the point system was fair for everyone.

The second goal, much more secondary but as it turned out also very useful, was to make some of the sprints fundraisers for the USA national team. We have also had a lot of success in meeting this goal. Because sprints are relatively easy to organize, a lot of folks have been willing to organize them to benefit the team. With a WOC now every year, this has been a key source of funding.

The third goal, also much more secondary, was to encourage the use of smaller, simpler terrains for orienteering. You don't always have to find a huge tract of deep forest to have good orienteering. Small parks, college campuses, and mostly open land can all offer possibilities for good competition.

The fourth goal was to be willing to experiment. Virtually no hard and fast rules. If something worked, fine, but also it's good to try new things. We're supposed to be an adventure sport.

The final goal, also much more secondary but very important, was to have some fun doing it. And I think that has been accomplished too.

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There have been changes in the structure of the Series each year. We've tweaked the point system. We made changes in the format for the Finals. One of the advantages of our organizational structure, a single "Commissioner" -- hopefully something reasonably close to a benevolent dictatorship -- has been a flexibility to change when it seemed like change was a good idea.

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So what should be changed for 2008?

There have been a couple of requests each year to start the following year right away, so that sprints in the fall would count for the next year. Sp far I've held off on that, mainly because by the time we get through the Sprint Finals I have really needed a break to recharge my batteries. But it is still a reasonable proposal.

There are suggestions to have some sort of sanctioning fee to raise money for non-trivial cash awards. We have stayed away from this so far, thinking that one of the goals was just to encourage clubs to hold more sprints, and therefore keep the process absolutely as simple as possible. Virtually no rules, virtually no requirements, just let us know when you are doing it and send the results afterwards. There has been a great deal of merit to this. But a sanctioning fee, if properly structured ("suggested donation") and implemented with a light hand, might work.

There are suggestions for further tweaking the point system. I assume further tweaking will continue to be done. I'm sure there will also be suggestions to change the format of the Sprint Finals. We are trying a new format this year, I hope it works well (I think it will!). But nothing is carved in stone. Again, because of the structure of the Series, run independently of USOF or COF, changes are easy to do. It's just a matter of trying to make the best decisions about which changes.

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And then there is one final change -- we need some new blood on the organizational side. Such as, a new Commissioner for 2008. And Boris would really like it if there was a new number cruncher. Or something.

The non-trivial "jobs" are:

-- Setting up and maintaining the web presence (schedule of events, standings, news/rules). The more timely this is, the better. You might have noticed that we've been a little slack this year.

-- Crunching the numbers on the standings.

-- Figuring out a venue for the Sprint Finals, and being involved enough to help make it happen.

-- Determining any changes for each year, and implementing them.

-- Dealing with any problems that come up.

I'm not sure who might be interested, or appropriate. I'm sure there are lots of folks who could do the job, or do part of the job. I'll still help out. But I just need a break.

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Finally, here's a list of just a few folks who have had a lot to do with the success of the Sprint Series so far --

Boris
Mike Waddington, in on it from the beginning.
Sandy and Valerie for all the e-punching help, including at all the Sprint Finals
Will Hawkins for the course setting at the first Sprint Finals
Randy and Clem for the course setting at the second Sprint Finals
Joe B for the course setting at the third Sprint Finals

I'll add more to the list, but I've got to head off for some scheduled rogaine practice.... :-)