Discussion: Bjorn again

As has been mentioned on another discussion thread, the elite classes at next year's NAOC's will have a sprint, middle, and long course (same as the new rules for the COC's). At the moment the Bjorn Kjellstrom trophy is awarded to the top country (Canada, US, or I guess Mexico) at the NAOCs. The winner is determined by the country with the lowest total time for their top 2 athletes in each of F and M 21 (20-34) for the 2-day classic.

So given the new race format what should the new rules be for this award?

For example should it include more than 4 athletes per country? All disciplines?

One idea....
Perhaps using the top 3-4 men and women for each of three races and the points system used in NAOL - with the country with the most points wins. The advantage of this system is that it rewards a country with depth. Even if you don't figure in your country's top 3 or 4 a good placing by you can drop the point totals of the other country's athletes. This would potentially increase the participation level in the elite classes and make the NAOC the top race that it should be.

We'll take the suggestions from here and submit them to COF and USOF in mid October for them to discuss and approve and then advertise on the 2006 NAOC web site.

Anyone who says "Eh?" or "Y'all" is automatically DQed. :)

Eddie, you hoser, that's like a good idea, eh? You don't like want hosers from like small town Canada creatin' a bad image, eh? 'snot good for the sport. the public will see a bunch of hosers standing around scratching their heads (kind of like in micrO but holding a beer instead -good Canadian beer mind you) :)

To actually answer the Hammer's question
I think it is good to award depth but you can't take it too far.
I think you need to find a system where the winner isn't automatically the host country because they could round up 15 participants versus the visitors who only had 10 participating.

I can't imagine why you would want to get COF and USOF involved, since they haven't been in the past. Clear something with the folks here on AP and then just announce what you're doing. COF and USOF (should) have more important stuff to deal with.

I'd say go with the top 4 men and women for each event and use a point system like NAOL. That way you still get hurt if your fourth (or maybe third and fourth) scores are back a ways, but not as badly as happens now with the system of adding up times.

Will you be providing beer for the US to celebrate with, or should we plan on bringing our own?

no good beer comes from across that border to the north or south. stick with the "MicrO" beers from the US.

>>Anyone who says "Eh?" or "Y'all" is automatically DQed. :)

What if you're born Canadian but live in St. Louis so you say both? Is this an OR or XOR?

Personally, I would also "vote" for the NAOL points system, going 3 or 4 deep.

I favor: NAOL points system, top 3 in each discipline from a country score for that discipline.

I like Eric's flavor. Then, say, the US could win Sprint, and Canada could win Long & Middle. Add up the points from all 3 disciplines for the overall victor & the Bjorn Kjellstrom trophy.

BTW, who started this trophy? Was it the Berman's (really vague recollection here...)? If so, then it's not even a USOF/COF issue. However, you might want to them you are planning to do the country scores this way and award 'their' trophy for those scores - so their not surprised, y'know. (phew.. .'y'know's ok)

If memory serves, the Bermans started a separate award (O/NA Cup?) that is based on results from age categories. The Kjellstrom trophy goes back considerably further, and I'm guessing it was started by Silva (or maybe by Bjorn).

I think JJ is right. My recollection is that it was donated by Silva (Bill Wildprett was Silva's orienteering person at the time) and named after Björn. The Bermans started a separate award -- the Prime of Life award -- a few years later based on results in the various older age groups. Neither one ever had any official involvement from USOF or COF.

I can't remember which year was first. I'm pretty sure that 2006 will be only the second time the US will win, the first being in 1982 in Manitoba. I'm not sure if the award was started in '82, or in 1980 in Cleveland. Basically the US has almost never won the BK cup, and almost never lost of P of L cup.

I have the Bjorn Kjellstron Trophy in my basement and yes it was donated by Silva in 1980. Canada has won the trophy 12 times to only once (1982) by the US. Eric's idea is perfect. Instead of COF/USOF approval perhaps we should have an official person from each team agree to the new formula and be on with it.

Which person has won the trophy the most? (hint: It is NOT an American).

Was it Seabiscuit?

Pretty sure Seabiscuit was an American.

Gotta be Pam James

Check out the brain on Nev. That's right....

1980 CANADA
T. de St. Croix
S. Bruce
M. Piercy
R. Lowry

1982 USA
S. Tarry
J. Rogers
S. Crawford
G. Gagarin

1984 CANADA
D. Demonte
M. Robert
R. Lowry
M. Adams

1986 CANADA
D. Demonte
K. Boulding
O. Naess
M. Adams

1988 CANADA
T. de St. Croix
M. Robert
P. James
M. Adams

1990 CANADA
T. de St. Croix
M. Robert
P. James
M. Adams

1992 CANADA
M. Waddington
T. de St. Croix
N. Waddington
P. James

1994 CANADA
P. James
C. Hagen
B. Graham
M. Waddington

1996 CANADA
P. James
S. Richards
M. Waddington
W. Smith

1998 CANADA
S. Smith
P. James
B. May
M. Waddington

2000 CANADA
P. James
C. Mahoney
M. Waddington
N. Duca

2002 CANADA
P. James
T. de St. Croix
R. Burnett
V. Smith

2004 CANADA
S. Hott Johansen
P. James
M. Waddington
N. Duca

PG seems to be baiting us ...
All I have to say is there isn't a relay involved so maybe we (Canadians) have a chance ;)

Pam James rocks

Yeah. And a man has finally snatched her up...

What's this about some rocks?

Pamela is engaged?!?!

Woah... woah... boyfriend.

:) Oh. I see.