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Discussion: WMOC 2021 event is to be held!

in: Orienteering; News

Apr 14, 2021 2:01 AM # 
angelica:
Some Good News for OLD People:
WMOC 2021 event is to be held!
https://wmoc2021.hu/en/event-to-be-held/

Who is in?
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Apr 14, 2021 2:14 AM # 
Vector:
Great news!
Apr 14, 2021 3:27 AM # 
tRicky:
Good news for old people who want to catch Covid?
Apr 14, 2021 4:09 AM # 
jjcote:
As of April 4, Hungary had the second-highest COVID death rate in Europe, behind only (wait for it)... Czech Republic!
Apr 14, 2021 7:15 AM # 
robplow:
If you look at cases in last 7 days in the whole world:

3. USA (NAOC July)
4. Turkey (JWOC in July
18. Canada
22. Hungary (WMOC, August )
25. Czechia (WOC July)
41. Switzerland (European Championships, May)
141. Australia
out of 153

clearly you should all make plans to go to the Australian Championships carnival in Sept/Oct in Tasmania: https://aoc2021.tasorienteering.asn.au/
Apr 14, 2021 7:41 AM # 
blairtrewin:
Except that you won't get in (unless you're an Australian, or are coming from NZ).
Apr 14, 2021 9:41 AM # 
gruver:
China has quite a low rate, perhaps we should be having our championships there;-)
Apr 14, 2021 10:07 AM # 
gordhun:
That's not how it works - you go to a country that has a high Covid rate you catch Covid. No, it is what a person does when there or anywhere that determines the likelihood of catching Covid.
I am not going to WMOC but the reasons have nothing to do with the Covid situation. If I were going this is what I would expect for myself:
-be vaccinated against Covid 19
-I and others would have to show negative result of recent Covid test and be given a distinctive wrist band to wear to prove to others I have tested negative and to be allowed to participate.
-wear a mask as an added precaution
-bypass the large gatherings such as banquets, opening parades and prize-givings.
-stick to myself .
The last two basically take all the fun out of going to a WMOC and take a lot of revenue out of the organizers' pockets but that is what it would take to get me to attend a WMOC or to NAOC for that matter. That plus the Canadian rule of compulsory hotel quarantine rules on return by air travel.
Apr 14, 2021 11:40 AM # 
tRicky:
What's stopping me from going would be the inability to leave this country and presumably the ridiculously high airfare involved. Plus as a 40y.o. white male not involved in frontline employment, I think I'm last on the list of those to be vaccinated in this country.

but the reasons have nothing to do with the Covid situation

Every reason you've mentioned seems to be related to Covid...
Apr 14, 2021 12:58 PM # 
angelica:
Pandemic is here to stay. We have to learn to live with it. Many old people and young people have been vaccinated in US and most old people will be vaccinated in many countries by August. But I think it is up to an individual to decide what they want to go or not.
Apr 14, 2021 1:26 PM # 
angelica:
Problem is how to get into Hungary...
Apr 14, 2021 2:08 PM # 
edwarddes:
Pandemic is here to stay because of idiots like you who won't change their behavior to help us end it!
Apr 14, 2021 2:20 PM # 
EricW:
Please.
Apr 14, 2021 2:25 PM # 
gordhun:
edwarddes that is a totally uncalled for shot.

Tricky suggest you re-read my post and try a little harder to get the sense of what I was writing.
Apr 14, 2021 2:35 PM # 
Bash:
That's not how it works - you go to a country that has a high Covid rate you catch Covid. No, it is what a person does when there or anywhere that determines the likelihood of catching Covid.

Yes and no. The rate of COVID-19 infections is a huge factor in addition to people's behaviour, given that few travel-related activities involve zero risk. Is it risky to dine indoors at a typical restaurant? That depends. This week it's low risk in Yellowknife and high risk in Michigan. In which place would there be less risk in staying in a hotel with a ventilation system you know nothing about? People aren't wrong to take the COVID-19 infection rate into account in their decision making.
Apr 14, 2021 5:25 PM # 
feet:
@EricW @gordhun: angelica has history on this topic on Attackpoint, and has made a lot of enemies on this subject. They don't all comment, but they certainly remember. I suspect the comment was directed at her, not at @gordhun.
Apr 14, 2021 6:01 PM # 
fossil:
Is it possible for us to have disagreements with each other without becoming enemies? It's a pretty small community after all.
Apr 14, 2021 6:18 PM # 
jjcote:
I hope it's okay for me to quote something from an AttackPoint log, 12 days after a positive covid diagnosis and after some rough times:

When I woke up this morning, I was lying in bed, thinking about when I might start to think about exercising again and what that might look like. Then I sat up and drank the glass of water by my bedside. I had to catch my breath after drinking that glass of water, so my return to exercise is going to be pretty slow.

This from someone who had been observing reasonable caution, but caught it anyway. It can be far from trivial.
Apr 14, 2021 6:27 PM # 
j-man:
@fossil: small and growing smaller all the time. But, that intimacy helps to make our enemies stand out better, I suppose.
Apr 14, 2021 7:03 PM # 
angelica:
Somehow I find topics that stir a lot of heated discussions. I find reasons with many other friends of different political views, religious views or other beliefs, but seems many orienteering people get angry and hard to reason. It seems that some orienteering people hold grudges forever on each other. Not just from this year Covid related…
I wonder why?
I do think Covid is real and I also do think we have to learn to live with it! I think we are all entitled to our opinions. Getting mad and be offensive isn't the only way to communicate... (edwarddes)
Apr 14, 2021 7:40 PM # 
jjcote:
Orienteers are actually a lot more friendly, cooperative, and congenial than some other groups of people I associate with.
Apr 14, 2021 7:46 PM # 
angelica:
jjcote:
what I see is.. many people who leave orienteering never come back even thought they love orienteering.
I can think of many people leaving orienteering because of some kind of disagreements.
Also we tend to argue more with each other - are you on Facebook at all?
Apr 14, 2021 8:11 PM # 
jjcote:
No, I'm not on Facebook. But orienteers are much more pleasant people (in general) than hang glider pilots, for example. That's my perception, at least.
Apr 14, 2021 8:19 PM # 
j-man:
I'm sure some of us have the ability to bring out the best in people!
Apr 14, 2021 8:27 PM # 
Cristina:
I don't know what part of the internet angelica regularly visits but I'd say AP is one of the more civil places.
Apr 14, 2021 8:36 PM # 
angelica:
Cristina..
calling people "idiot" isn't very civil.
Apr 14, 2021 8:38 PM # 
j-man:
True, much more civil than FB, but generally closer-knit, so the molality is higher.
Apr 14, 2021 8:50 PM # 
Cristina:
No, calling someone an "idiot" is not very civil, but it's also fairly rare for AP. And very mild language for the internet.

ETA: Not excusing name-calling on AP, just resisting the notion that AP is a particularly toxic place.
Apr 14, 2021 10:24 PM # 
jjcote:
And the name calling was immediately met with calls to tone it down.
Apr 14, 2021 11:24 PM # 
tRicky:
gordhun I did figure you weren't going for other reasons but then your final comment stated 'that is what it would take to get me to WMOC' so it confused me!
Apr 15, 2021 12:40 AM # 
gordhun:
tRicky I see your point. I'll amend it to read 'that is what it would take to get me to attend a WMOC if I were to go which I'm not.' or something like that.
Apr 15, 2021 1:04 AM # 
tRicky:
I'm easily confused. I had been looking forward to Japan WMOC this year though now no-one really has any idea if or when that will go ahead.
Apr 15, 2021 1:40 AM # 
blairtrewin:
There definitely won't be a Japan World Masters Games (or WMOC) in 2021. At this stage World Masters Games will be staged in 2022, and will have orienteering but it will not be a WMOC. (An option which is being considered if Hungary doesn't go ahead is to run the "2021" WMOC with WMG).

I don't have an issue with the organisers pressing on at this stage if they're prepared to take the financial risks of low entry numbers or a late cancellation. (Personally, with vaccinations rolling out, I'd put the chances that the situation in Europe will have improved enough by August to allow the event to go ahead, and reasonably free movement within the EU which would make up 80-90% of normal WMOC entries, at somewhat greater than 50%).
Apr 15, 2021 1:43 AM # 
jennycas:
https://wmg2021.jp/en/
"The 10th World Masters Games will be held in May, 2022 in Kansai, Japan."
(delayed a year - which is why IOF asked around for other countries to host WMOC in 2021 - next year's WMG appear to still include orienteering as per the sports list but those races won't be called WMOC 2022 as these were already allocated to Italy by IOF)

TBH though, I'm not convinced that even by mid 2022 Australians will be permitted by our government to travel internationally and return to Aust.
Apr 15, 2021 1:44 AM # 
tRicky:
Yes I saw the webpage that said WMG 2022 in Japan but "2021" WMOC at the same event seemed dependent on whether Hungary would go ahead this year.
Apr 15, 2021 2:19 AM # 
jjcote:
I'm personally hoping to be able to go to the O-Ringen this summer, but am holding off on getting plane tickets until I get some indication that I'll be allowed into Sweden.
Apr 15, 2021 7:38 AM # 
jSh:
I'm not sure where Blair gets his optimism re vaccination in Europe, but my impression is it's not rolling out fast enough. At least here in Germany we're only jabbing over-70-year-olds, and (due to political games or truly due to significant blood clottings?) we're disqualifying some manufacturers and thus reducing available doses. Maybe in summer the categories W/M65 will be vaccinated, I very much doubt W/M35's will be.
Apr 15, 2021 8:55 AM # 
jSh:
Some data to support my (at least current) pessimism - share of fully vaccinated people in orienteering countries with probable WMOC-participation (hope I didn't miss any):
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-people-fu...
(Germany 6.2%, that matches my pessimism / Hungary 13.4%)

Admittedly, the share of people with at least partial vaccination looks a bit more promising, assuming second jabs will happen in time for WMOC:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-people-va...
(Germany 16.8%, Hungary 31.4%)
Apr 19, 2021 2:43 PM # 
Psuba:
AFAIK second jabs are being delivered according to pre-determined schedule and even with some countries opting to alter the manufacturer's recommendations somewhat, most vaccines have between 30-80 days lag. I would think that it is pretty safe to assume that the vast majority of those who got the 1st by now, will be fully vaccinated by July at the latest (not to mention the partial but still relatively good protection the 1st jab gives, and the 1 component vaccine that will also have been given to many by then). Of course, it is still unlikely to get to a level where you can talk about herd immunity, so other protection measures will be advised (and/or required).
I think generally speaking travel regulations, vaccination situation, infection rates etc will look very different in about 2 months time, so I welcome the fact that the refund policy have been changed for those that want to keep their options open and their eye on the situation before finally commiting. (i.e. you can cancel by 1st June and get all your money back, and if the organisers have to cancel for whatever reason, also you get all your money back)

This does not help everyone, but may help some.
Apr 20, 2021 2:00 PM # 
jSh:
@jj, good thing you were holding off... sadly you'll need to wait until 2022:
https://www.oringen.se/213/english/nonyear-pages/a...
Apr 20, 2021 3:20 PM # 
jjcote:
Yeah, I got unofficial word on that a couple of days ago (I'm well connected...). Another year for me to continue learning Swedish.
Apr 20, 2021 3:43 PM # 
bubo:
You should be fluent by then.
Hur går det med svenska språket?
Apr 20, 2021 5:16 PM # 
jjcote:
Långsamt. Jag kan inte ens läsa barns böcker än, men jag försöker, lite varje dag.
Apr 20, 2021 6:12 PM # 
Charlie:
Scary, but I can read that exchange. Couldn't write it, though. I am well behind J-J.
Apr 20, 2021 8:13 PM # 
o-maps:
I got the "långsamt" thanks to my modest German knowledge. Alas the little bit of Finnish I've learned doesn't help with anything except Estonian.
Apr 21, 2021 2:12 AM # 
rlindzon:
Knowing a little Finnish might be extra incentive to go to Hungary because Finnish and Hungarian are in the same language family.
Apr 21, 2021 2:33 AM # 
robplow:
The theory that Finnish and Hungarian are in the same family is debatable. Even if they are they are so distantly related that there is no benefit.

English is distantly related to as Hindi, knowing English will not help you understand Hindi.

It is a lot easier to learn Swedish than Finnish. Swedish and English are very closely related. Finnish is one of the harder languages for English speakers to learn. The only harder languages (at least among relatively commonly learnt languages) are Arabic, Chinese, Japanese and Korean.

According to the Scientific American: . . . ability to learn a new language, at least grammatically, is strongest until the age of 18 after which there is a precipitous decline. ... Finally, changes in the brain that continue during the late teens and early 20s may somehow make learning harder.

You are too old JJ - might as well give up now. Although there are theories that psilocybin can improve learning - so maybe do some magic mushies before you start a Swedish study session.
Apr 21, 2021 4:15 AM # 
jjcote:
Finnish is, however, closely related to Estonian. I don't speak either one, but I can translate Finnish into Estonian. It's easy: just leave the vowel off the end of every word.
Apr 21, 2021 7:12 AM # 
jSh:
Hahaha. Nice theory, but doesn't work even for simple things like EN:thanks = FI:kiitos = EE:aitäh. Actually I honestly wonder where you learned that theory, I can't think of very many words in Finnish that end with a vowel that could be removed?
Apr 21, 2021 8:32 AM # 
Jagge:
EE:pulma = EN:wedding
FI:pulma = EN:problem

But some say it is in practice the same thing.
Apr 21, 2021 8:39 AM # 
jSh:
Ooops. I think that's what's called a "false friend" in translation.
(And it doesn't follow JJs "drop the vowel"-theory)
Apr 21, 2021 12:42 PM # 
jjcote:
yksi kaksi kolme = üks kaks kolm
sauna = saun

That's enough of a pattern for me, and I declare victory and walk away. :-)
Apr 21, 2021 1:13 PM # 
tRicky:
This is when you say you're Finnished with the discussion.
Apr 21, 2021 1:38 PM # 
jSh:
Estonishing!
Apr 21, 2021 7:35 PM # 
bubo:
Barnböcker är en bra start!
Apr 21, 2021 8:23 PM # 
jSh:
Pippi Långstrump var nog en orienterare också?
Apr 21, 2021 8:37 PM # 
bubo:
Pippi var sjörövare på de sju haven.
Apr 21, 2021 9:27 PM # 
Charlie:
Sjörövare fanns inte i min vokabulär.
Apr 21, 2021 9:35 PM # 
bubo:
Ma pirati, sapete di cosa si tratta
Apr 21, 2021 9:37 PM # 
jSh:
But wouldn't that make a great "false friend" again, if only it could literally be translated as "sea-rover". Sadly, it's more like "lake-robber". Alas...
Apr 21, 2021 9:58 PM # 
jjcote:
Jag har en bok, "Megakillen och havets skräck". Det finns en man som heter Rödskägg, han är "pirat". (Men Kapten Baxter vet inte om hans skägg verkligen är rött, eftersom han är färgblind.)
Apr 21, 2021 10:15 PM # 
TheInvisibleLog:
Quality hijack.
Apr 22, 2021 12:30 AM # 
jjcote:
Precis.
Apr 22, 2021 7:55 AM # 
jSh:
Men eftersom vi säkert kan anta att skägget inte var grönt, kunde vi kan slutsatsen att det förmodligen var röd. (Yes, I know there are different kinds of colourblind)
Apr 22, 2021 11:10 AM # 
jjcote:
As someone with protanopia, I can assure you that it doesn't work that way. :-)
Apr 22, 2021 12:11 PM # 
jSh:
I feared you'd say something like that...
Så, ska vi atergå till ämnet WMOC? :-)
Apr 22, 2021 12:48 PM # 
jjcote:
It's so hard to predict. Right now, for Americans, it would be impractical (but not impossible) to go to Hungary. But in four months? Let's hope things improve dramatically.
Apr 22, 2021 6:11 PM # 
o-maps:
WMOC, and then Jukola a week later!
Apr 22, 2021 6:15 PM # 
bubo:
Jukola!! Makkara!!
Apr 30, 2021 4:20 PM # 
mellis:
jjcote: speaking and understanding spoken Swedish is, imho, the hardest to master. I found that working my way through the free app Duolingo was very helpful. I had, however, taken several f2f Swedish courses prior to that and had lived in Sweden for over a year. Unfortunately, the younger Swedes generally speak very good English so when I'd speak Swedish, many of them would respond in English!
Apr 30, 2021 4:51 PM # 
jjcote:
Duolingo is what I've been doing, getting pretty close to completing the course. But yeah, Swedish is one of the most useless languages in the sense that there's virtually nobody who speaks Swedish who doesn't also speak English.
Apr 30, 2021 9:04 PM # 
Cristina:
J-J, very true, but we did have a situation where a Scandi language was necessary with a Swede! We had a Swedish midwife present when Lukas was born and Melissa, in her state of pain/delirium couldn’t handle understanding Swedish or speaking Norwegian. The midwife didn’t understand English (or at least claimed she didn’t) so Melissa would speak English to me, I’d speak Norwegian to the midwife who would respond in Swedish, and then I’d translate back to English for Melissa. Totally bizarre experience, 3/10 would not do again.

Also never thought I’d be talking about that day in a thread about WMOC on AP.
Apr 30, 2021 9:37 PM # 
mellis:
Very interesting, Christina. And bizarre, as you say. Good that it worked well!
Apr 30, 2021 10:06 PM # 
jjcote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xle3I-5nfpI
Apr 30, 2021 10:17 PM # 
Cristina:
Why do you have to bring my parents into this?
May 1, 2021 11:04 AM # 
Charlie:
Several years ago I was watching my Danish friend Max speaking with a group of Swedes and Norwegians and I asked him what language they were speaking. Each of hem spoke his own, and the others understood. But Max said he couldn’t actually speak either Swedish or Norwegian. Then I asked them about how they communicated with the Finns on the trip and he said no, that they couldn’t.

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