Discussion: Winter O-Training

OK, so it's 60 degrees out here this AM, but that weather's about to come an end in a hurry. I searched the Discussion archives, but did not find this topic covered anywhere.

Since there will be snow on the ground from "real soon, now" until shortly before the nice stretch of A-meets that begin with the Flying Pig, what do you all do about O training during the winter? I'm not concerned about the conditioning part (treadmills and roads cover that), but I'd like to continue to improve my navigating, and O-technique (and, sorry to say, I'm not a ski-o enthusiast).

If Nate and I go run on a local map, it seems many features would be hidden by the snow - as would much of the deadfall. Does one just "cowboy up" and head out? I assume, at some snow depth, snowshoes become a must?

Thanks for any thoughts you can provide.

You probably get more snow in Rochester than in most other places in the country. In Boston we almost never need snowshoes for orienteering in the winter (avoid the weeks after the two or three biggest snowstorms of the winter, and there's no real problem). And in the South, there ain't much snow. My patience for navigating in the winter is exhausted faster by getting cold feet than by the difficulty of navigating or running in the snow. Deadfall isn't much of an issue when there's less than a foot of snow on the ground: you can still see the logs, and the small stuff is covered.

Somebody is sure to post that playing Catching Features is the way to train navigation in the winter, so let me get in first. I can't see the point myself, but other people seem to like it.

it seems like winter running becomes quite difficult mechanically once you're sinking in deeper than your knees. still great strength training though.

also, you may not have problems with hard crust where you are, but the most annoying thing is when your feet are frequently (but not always) breaking through.

I've been thinking about getting some small lightweight running-showshoes for a few winters now. anyone have experience/recommendations for those?

as for cold wet feet...neoprene socks!

Neoprene socks and a headlamp will get you through plenty of O' training .

Although I can't justify buying a 3rd pair of snowshoes specifically for running, I would buy Tubbs Catalysts if I could!

In southern Ontario, we have the Thomass Winter orienteering series - eight Sunday morning races throughout the snowy months, with shorter courses based on age/gender handicap, and winning time around 40-45 minutes. Running in the snow is great exercise, and most map features are visible. And besides, if you can't see the trails, for example, it's better nav training anyway, right? :-)

Ken, I've tried both the Redfeathers and Dion racing snowshoes, plus I've used larger Tubbs for winter backpacking. I really like Bob Dion's stuff and will likely pony up for a pair myself in the next few weeks. And its nice to support local businesses - Bob is out of SW Vermont and actively supports the local Snowshoe racing scene - he has loaners available at most of the WMAC races for folks to try.

Dion Snowshoes

WMAC Snowshoe Series - begins Dec 18th

Mike - I find that when running on O maps in the winter with snow on the ground that it really reinforces reading more subtle contour detail. Much ground clutter and decidious foliage is gone and the snow makes for a more uniform, monochromatic landscape. So take the opportunity to set yourself some courses utilizing contour features and practice reading through the other map features to concentrate on contours. the woods feel more like they do in catching features..

You could always move to St. Louis and not have to worry about snow. (We get some, but it usually melts in a week or so). Winter is the best part of the year for orienteering around here.

I assume that the Empire State Games ski-O qualifier series is still in existence. I always enjoyed those races when I lived in Rochester. Granted, ski-O is different, but it's still about moving fast and reading a map.

Snow - if you aren't a skier, nature's way of punishing people who live near too much excellent O terrain.

Going to a training camp in Spain or Portugal or the south of France has a lot going for it though "a lot" doesn't include minimal cost. Failing that, focus on physical training while doing something on a map at least occasionally. And, while running in deep snow is excellent for strength and highly aerobic, don't completely neglect throwing in even very small amounts of fast running occasionally - having tons of strength and endurance but lacking leg speed during the early spring O competitions could be very frustrating.

Disclaimer: of course, living in DC, I don't have to practice what I'm preaching. Winter orienteering is lovely here - offhand I can only recall three or four occasions in eight years when a meet got snowed out.

My AR team is sponsored by GV Snowshoes so I reccomend those.

If the snow gets too deep go with the snowshoes if "snopulsning" isn't your thing but set a long line O and read everything on the map since the pace will be slower. Snowshoe orienteering is a blast.

Can't say that I really have any problem here (there's slush right now, but thats an anomaly, and will be gone soon). I agree with Jon Torrance: snow is "nature's way of punishing people who live near too much excellent O terrain."

Depsite the lack of any teachnical terrain in Vancouver the weather, although wet, never stops you from training outside.

We go out of our way to find snow (ie the okanagan!), which correspondingly has good terrain. ;)

I love running in snow, at least for a limited time. It is good strength training, forces a slightly different kind of navigation, and most importantly, makes it much harder to twist an ankle (provided it isn't crusty--then all bets are off.)

you could always offer to design courses in a warm climate, say florida for example. take a weekend off and visit the area, do some mapping and experience new terrain. don't forget the "go with the FLO" meet in Feb.

northern lites makes a lightweight racing snowshoe.

Will clubs pay travel expenses to course designers?

Living in the Yukon, there are probably almost 6 months a year when there is too much snow and/or it is too cold to train on maps here. I rely on mental imagery, "armchair O" and even practice map reading while running on the treadmill.

I used a pair of Tubbs loaners at a winter adventure race two years ago -- they were carbon fiber Piranhas. Great light weight snowshoes. Have never seen them for sale, so they may have been special factory prototypes.

The thing about racing snowshoes is that they aren't really snowshoes. Snowshoes were originally designed to increase your foot area so that you could walk on top of deep snow. I've got a pair of those (4' long, made of wood and leather), and I had some great training in very deep snow last winter. But when it comes to serious racing, you can't have people breaking trail, because it would be a huge disadvantage to the guy in front, So snowshoe races are held on packed snow surfaces. But then you don't need flotation, so you go for a much smaller showshoe. In fact, the optimum size is so small that snowshoe races have a minimum length rule, and racing showshoes are designed to be exactly that length. What it boils down to is that a snowshoe race is like a sack race, the gear is there only to slow you down. If you want to go out in deep snow, you need big snowshoes or skis. If you're going out where it's already tracked up, you're probably better off with spiked shoes. O-shoes with neoprene socks are great for running on snowmobile tracks. In addition to my huge snowshoes, I also have a smaller, modern pair for less serious snow conditions, but for showshoe-O at X-C ski areas, where the snowshoes are just there to meet the requirement that you not step on a groomed trail with a regular shoe, I borrow Nancy's small pair.

Only three or four snowed-out meets near DC, Jon? Up here in New England, where we actually get snow, it's very rare for an event to get snowed out. One A-meet day in early October of '87, a few ski-Os cancelled due to lack of snow (sometimes not converted to regular O because the woods were a sheet of ice), and that's about it. Snow? The meet goes on!

Yes, but we don't schedule so many meets for December and January as QOC does, do we, J-J?

Plus your parks (and municipalities) probably actually budget for snow removal. The time a foot and a half of snow fell region-wide in the 36 hours before our meet, I have no problem with but it was very annoying the time the roads were passable but the park refused to open their gate because they couldn't clear a few inches of snow off the park road.

Yak-trax are also good for snow/ice running.

In my 9 years with SLOC, we've only suffered the scandal of a meet cancellation once: the cold nose meet last year. Several of us decided to go anyway. Actually it wasn't that bad at the meet site, but driving there was an adventure.

We got over a foot of snow the night before our B-meet in March 2000. Definitely an advantage for the late starters that day.

I'm pretty sure snowshoe racing requirements are not based upon length, but functional surface area - FSA. I think current requirements for most races require 120 inches fsa - thats about 3-4x the area of my feet.

I agree that snowshoes aren't much of an advantage over running shoes in some conditions, but even racing shoes limit postholing under many conditions and preserve trail integrity for skiers & snowshoers. Ever try skiing or snowshoeing on trails that have been trashed by hikers pockmarking the surface?

And many races do take place in fresh powder - most of the leaders take turns breaking trail - often as little as 30s per turn. In these situations the race comes down to a strategy of how close to the end to make a move - depends a lot on trail width at the finish. Not unlike bike racing in many regards - breakaways working together & sprinters jostling for a final sprint to the line.

Here is a link to a discussion by runners about keeping feet warm & dry: http://www.ultrunr.com/coldfeet.html