Discussion: Summer Training in Harriman SP

I am starting summer training series in Harriman State Park.
First training will take place on Southern Part of Surebridge Mountain map.
Date - Sunday, June 15, 2008
Time - all, who are interested shell be at the parking lot no later then 12:00.
Where - Route 106 - 2.5 km West of Kanawauke Circle
Maps are preprinted, scale 1:10000, contours 5 meters
Standard size controls, no punches.
Course: 4.8 km, 250 m climb.
If there interest of bringing kids - I will show them basics skills of non-linear objects orienteering (some what advanced).
You are responsible for your own hydration and food.
Controls will be collected after 1:30 PM.

Let us know when/if you have other dates planned in the series. I'd have to do some advance planning to get there--and would probably want to solicit some ride sharing from DVOA land.

Expect to try to make a bunch of these, but have family obligations for this weekend - it being Father's Day and all. Should be able to make next Sunday. Thanks for organizing this.

The only reason I moved up next to Harriman was so that I could attend Gregory's training events and still have time to do fatherly duties.

Father, is it a sin not to attend Gregory's training series?

It is not a sin but those who attend the session will be rewarded with Heavenly Terrain and Devine Courses set by His Holiness Greg.

The bridge near Kanawauke Circle is shut down since March. People need to come via Rte. 17 to Rte 106. The intersection is a few miles north of Tuxedo on Rte. 17.

I called the Harriman State park ranger a minute ago and she confirmed, that 106 is closed.

As far as I remember one can cross the bridge on foot or mtb and get to the start this way.

In light of route 106 being closed I have to move this training to Lake Skannatati parking lot, 1 km North-East of Kanawauke Circle.

For future events - this is only informal training; I am not making any advanced plans. I will make announcements on Wednesday before the weekend training and post in this thread. Most of the time it is going to be one day only, and some people in our group are working Saturdays, so it is most likely to take place on Sundays.

Since I pass through Harriman on my way home on Friday and usually stop for a run (like tonight), let me know if you might need any set-up help before any "event". Gotta run..or in my case gotta walk/run.

You mean the Fishermen's Wharf parking, right below the 7 Lake Drive, correct?

To Daniel - yes.

Thanks Paul for offering help. Set up is usually minimal, I would rather have you come and train with us :)

Trivia questions: a) how many lakes are on Seven Lakes Dr? and b) what are the seven lakes?

Question a) comes down to judgment calls on what qualifies as a lake.
Question b) has two answers: the modern one (which I can name without peeking), and the classical one, dating back to when the road got its name, but it took a somewhat different course that it does now!

Question a) comes down to judgment calls on what qualifies as a lake.

I guess it depends on who you believe. Poking around the net a bit, 2 ha seems to have the preponderance of support as the lower limit, tho there doesn't seem to be total consensus on that definition. Here's the wikipedia writeup, FWIW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake

Harriman Trails — A Guide and History, by William J. Myles, claims that Seven Lakes Drive passes nine lakes, but it doesn't list them, so I don't know what the other two are that he's counting. But, for example, how many lakes are there named Lake Kanawaukee?

Lets assume that to be counted as a lake that 7 lakes drives passes by, the lake must be visible from the road. We have the following lakes (south to north)
- Lake Sebago
- Lake Kanawauke
- Lake Skanatati
- Lake Askoti
- Lake Tiorati
- Lake Nawahunta
- Silver Mine Lake
- Queensboro Lake
- Hessian Lake
Indeed 9. If the assumption is that you should be able to throw a rock into the the lake from the road, the number goes down to 6 or 7 depending on how good a throw you have.

Ah! You know what, I thought Seven Lakes Drive stopped at Long Mountain Circle, and I didn't realize that it was still called Seven Lakes Drive on the south side of Bear Mountain, after it crosses the Palisades. I was thinking that was Perkins, and didn't realize that Perkins was just the spur road to the summit (because that's all that the road signs mention). So I hadn't been counting Queensboro and Hessian.

The original route turned at Kanawauke Circle and followed what is now Rte. 106 west, and Lake Stahahe was one of the lakes, and maybe Little Long Pond as well, but some of the other lakes (such as Tiorati) didn't exist at the time, because the dams had not yet been built.

Hmmm.. no training this weekend?

No, too many injured bodies around, trying to heal :(

wcoc meet at Crandalls park on sunday

Wrapping up the trivia: Myles thinks that the original lakes were Hessian, Queensboro, Nawahunta, Tiorati, Kanawauke, Little Long Pond, and Stahahe. (Further trivia: Hessian Lake is named for the bodies of Hessian troops thrown in in 1777. It was called Bloody Pond for a while after that.)

Greg: What are the chances for a training activity over the 4th of July weekend?

Yeah, I was remembering wrong, Tiorati was one of the original seven, because it (along with Kanawaukee and Nawahunta) was dammed in 1915, the year that Seven Lakes Drive was built. Prior to that, Tiorati was two smaller ponds, whose names live on in the Cedar Pond Campground. Silvermine, Skannatati, Askoti and Sebago were all dammed up later. There is a bit of a weird thing going on in my opinion, that Kanawaukee is considered one lake, but separate from Little Long Pond. Seems to me that it should either be all one lake, or else it should be three.

You mean you have a copy of Myles as well, feet?

Besides O training, please keep in mind some of other options available for a fun 4th of july weekend in Harriman :

- Trail running
- Swimming (*)
- Rock Climbing (*)
- Rogaine training
- Mountain biking (*)
- Camping
- Backpacking

(*) - may require alternate locations.

Contact this poster for details - especially if Gregory does not come through!

Before 4-th we most likely to have training this Sunday - details to follow.

Bernard: Just for you, I will alter my comment to point out that I don't think you will find any rogaines in need of training at Harriman. All the Harriman rogaines are already fully domesticated.

jjcote: Yes, I am a proud owner of that book.

what do you mean? You must have read my posting incorrectly. Please read carefully.

:-)

Next training - this Sunday ~ We will be there around 11 AM -at the same parking lot as last time (see above). I will go to set up controls and meet everyone interested at noon by the start triangle. Course is 3.5 km, 15 controls. Bring your own hydration - course loops 3 times around the start, you will have chances to drink. Maps are pre-printed.

Wouldn't the start be a shorter walk from the Lake Kanawauke parking lot?

Greg, your clue sheet seems to cover part of obvious route to the start. What are you hiding under there?

But you have to pay to park at Kanawauke. Looking forward to being there this Sunday.

Please, take the right route to start, yuo will be exposed to less controls that way :)

take the right route to start

Not that I'm going, but can you clarify for others -- is that North of Lake Skannatati or South? If South, is the large trail hidden by the "clue sheet" easily visible from the road?

Which part of Rte 106 is closed -- the part coming from the Thruway?

Yes.

We had a good training today, despite the fact that I forgot to bring controls. Thanks everyone for coming - course data for splits is posted, I will post the map on Monday

Thanks Gregory. Enjoyed the course. Good navigation without being too taxing physically - especially given the humid conditions. How is it a actually beat you on a leg. Oh, it's probably a downhill momentum thing.

I would like to set up training this Saturday - July 5, on one of two maps in New Jersey: either South Mountain or Thorn. If there is a preference for one over another let me know. Plus I will need a map - OCAD or 300 dpi jpeg file. Let me know in next 24 hrs.

Sorry, my OCAD computer in Hamburg has experienced a major system meltdown and a lot of my files are currently unavailable. I know there are other sources of files. Let me know if you want me to look into them.

I have OCAD 6 versions of Lewis Morris / Jockey Hollow and Tourne.

I got to Newark and sent you the South Mtn OCAd file.

Thanks to Paul Bennett we have a copy of South Mountain map and I will have a course set (7.5 km) for this Saturday, July 5 at noon. Maps are pre-printed.
Start Location
Driving directions on HVO web-site

Where is South Mountain?

South Mountain is in New Jersey - DVOA maps are save :)

But where is that? I might actually make the drive and I've never been.

Arrrrr!

There is some kind of pirate festival -- possibly charging for admission -- going on in the Tulip Springs area, so I'm not sure how well that start location is going to work out.

Never mind.

The pirate fest ended on June 21. See you tomorrow!

Although I know you wouldn't wait, just thought I'd let you know that my plans changed and I can't make it.

Sandy, you are always welcome - the rules are simple: we set the controls and go running - if anyone is late - the maps are on windshield of red Mazda - I can work with kids if anybody bring them. Controls get collected when everybody is back, usually after 1:30 PM.
Next training is in two weeks, after ROGAINE.

Anything happening this weekend (7/19-20)?

I am recovering from the ROGAINE - we will do a trail run from parking lot at Lake Skanatati on Sunday, 11:30AM

Sunday, August 03, noon.
This week training will take place on Pole Brook map
I will start setting around 11 AM, and will be ready by noon.
The training offers two options: intervals 10 x 300-550m total length ~ 8 km or 6.5 km course running around start area in many loops. Maps are preprinted; bring your own hydration.
Here is what to expect.

Which parking lot - Kanawauke? I might come.

We will be parking at Skanatati and run to the area, perhaps Greg can show a start triangle for those who might show up?

I should have known 'Russian' and 'free parking' went well together. ;)

ditto!

This isn't the best advertising, but we had the afterthought to post this and see if anyone is interested...

On Sat, 11 Oct 08, USMAOC is running a team time trial (finalizing our traveling squad for Nov's A-meet in California) in Harriman SP on the Pole Brook Mtn map.

There will be two Motala-style (3 loops from a common start/finish) courses:
Orange: ~4.5km, 12 controls
Green: ~6km, 13 controls

Because of Academy constraints, there will be a super-compressed start window: 0830-0840 and a 2-hour course limit. Controls (e-punch) will be picked up at 1045.

If interested, be at the Kanawauke parking lot (same one used for last weekend's Highlander race) at 0815...we will pull in, do a quick loop with the vehicles, then continue down the road to drop off all but our drivers, who will return to park the vehicles and jog to the remote start/finish. You can hop in one of our vehicles for drop-off if we have room, or car-pool yourself to the drop-off (no parking there) or jog there with our drivers.

If possible, please send me an email: jonathan.campbell a.t usma d-o-t edu if you plan on coming, so we know to look for you and have a map ready.

We'll be reusing (overprinting by hand) WOC O-Fest 1993 Pole Brook maps, so there is no charge for this bare-bones event. Though we will be epunching (practice for our A-meet crew), we may not download until we return to the Academy.