Discussion: Orienteering = ?

Ok everyone...I have a challenge for you. I want you to tell me what Orienteering means to you in only one word? Impossible you say? I think not.

For example, you may say that the car brand "Volvo = Safety" or that "Disney = Magic" or that the "New York Yankees = Championships" (unless you are a Sox fan).

So let's see what you've got. One rule. One word only.

Sincerely,
Glen

Glen Schorr
Executive Director
United States Orienteering Federation

Orienteering=Adventure!

Orienteering = hardcore!

O.Mov has some great one worders at the end from juniors....

one memorable one....

Orienteering=Swedish Chicks

Not to confuse the issue, but I wonder if this is meant to be what orienteering currently means or what it could mean? #s 2 & 3 are good, but maybe aspirational. But, we should aspire to great things, so, go for it.

I will say orienteering is 'obscure.' Orienteering could be 'kinetic.'

Keep me out of marketing!

For me personally, Orienteering = Frustration but I believe that Orienteering = Adventure would be a good marketing strategy.

When I think orienteering I think of Tundra/Desert's: "Orienteering. You can't handle it." Which means I need to come up with a single word for "something you can't handle", which might be something like "badass".

edit: maybe it was ebone or terry who came up with it...

Orienteering = Naviblitzing

Orienteering = Sick! (Note: That means something different, and positive, to a 16-year-old.)

Orienteering = Life

Orienteering=gnarly

Orienteering == challenging

woods...ok, I'll give it more thought.

For me:
orienteering = pleasure
orienteering = addiction
orienteering = pretend-you-are-an-international-level-athlete-opportunity

family

Obssession
Running
Invigorating
Energizing
Navigation
Terrain
Event
Enjoyment
Route
Interclub
Nothing better
Good sports

IOF: Orienteering...At One with Nature
USOF: Orienteering=Nature

aspergers on speed

Orienteering = Freedom

Orienteering = Crazy Choice

Orienteering = granite

for someone who doesnt orienteer:
lame
isolated
poor
confusing
slow
boring

orienteering = map running
orienteering = scrambling
orienteering = NP complete (TSP)

orienteering=
fun
good friends

XtremeXC

maps or maprunning

Great stuff guys! Keep em coming. One word only. Stay positive!

Glen

Orienteering = Challenge

Orienteering = Not so easy!

ORIENTEERING = BOLD

Orienteering = Brilliant

How about Orienteering = Fun?

Cartolicious

One single word doesn't totally capture it for me.

orienteering = adventure
orienteering = challenge
orienteering = fun

Maybe fun comes the closest.

Orienteering = Confidence

With the skills you learn in orienteering, you'll navigate through life with confidence. Learn to plan your attack at every challenge life throws at you. Be confident that you have the skills to travel through life's darkest moments and emerge a winner. Map out your journey through difficult projects and complete them in record time.
It's a great feeling to be in the deep dark woods and know exactly where you are and exactly which direction is home.

Orienteering = Be like us!
Orienteering = Live like us !
Orienteering = Do it like us!

Discovery

orienteering= lol

orienteering = exploring

orienteering=The Big O...

I like GuyO's choice "Life", as epxressed by haywoodkb's comments on "Confidence"

We did a beginners' O clinic as a youth activity for our church a while back, and the pastor, who had never even stepped off the trail before, much less run an O course, was so excited about how the sport parallels the journey of life in general.

How you have goals mapped out for you, but you need to decide how to reach each one. How you occasionally need a compass to help you find your way. How you have to rely on your own skills and decisions. If you should follow the well known, safe trail, or strike out on your own. The analogies go on .. (I'll leave out the more religious ones)

In a more literal vein, I like O as a sport for it's independent, off-the-grid nature; that is it not an Olympic sport, that it is not overly professional or trendy, that it fosters independence and a combination of competition and cooperation among its participants, that it can be partaken as all levels from map walk to world championship in the same event and venue.

Independence and Freedom have distracting political connotations. My wife suggested "Individuality" which I kind of like.

On the Sunday before JWOC began, there was a welcoming Mass at the Catholic Church in Fiera di Primiero. While most of the Mass was in Italian, some parts were also spoken in English.

Of particular note was the homily (sermon), in which the priest said that an orienteering course was analogous to life. He also likened the bible to a map, with the people we meet along the way being the controls.

I like the image above by "whyjustrun".
Can I have this as a PDF file so I can print a poster?

Odacious

I think of it as 'intense'. I suppose that's a bit generic and cluttered from a marketing point of view, but that is the experience for me.

I didn't come up with "You can't handle it". Credit more properly goes to ebone and/or Terry.

Might there be other compelling ways to place the emphasis in that slogan, or leave it unspecified? It just seems like it could be seen as slightly confrontational.

Um that's the whole point. You sure can't, can you?

Come clean Glenn - are you just kicking off a bit of entertainment - in which case everyone is a winner. Or are you fishing for marketing terms?

Mapsport

Yeah j-man, it's a challenge. Probably best if spoken by a parent to a child: "Oh, orienteering? Don't bother, you can't handle it."

I like the exploring/intensity/discovery words, though I'm a bit surprised that most of us can't come up with stuff that doesn't directly relate to the sport. I guess it shows that we have work to do.

And I sure hope Glen is fishing for marketing terms. ;-)

When I was adventure racing one of my team mates was head of marketing for a major company. He said that the word orienteering already means different things to people so that is the major challenge. When sports market (or re-invent themselves) they need to get around that by either changing the name or calling it the 'the new X". So one line would be to work with the letter "O". Work off the Gatorade "What s G?" idea.

"What is O?" intense, explore, adventure, etc...
"Do you have a type O personality?"
Then you could go with thing like "O-Running" "O-MTB", etc.

Ummm, Guys....I believe it is GLEN Schorr. Doubled consonant on the last name only.

orienteering=more

its more than just running
its more than just mapreading
orienteers are more than just friends

...and I really like whyjustrun's image.

@ Vladimir: I understand that is the point, but for whatever reason--my feeling for American inflections, my personality, or something else--that emphasis just doesn't look right. It strikes me as fatuous or presumptuous. Again, I guess that is the point. But, at least in this context, I don't find it to be compelling. To the degree that it is and A.i) potential people respond to it in a constructive way, or A.ii) they don't find the challenger silly, great. My fear is that they we aren't issuing the challenge from a position of strength and/or indeed, they can handle it, at least to the degree that Americans can vis-a-vis the world elite. And in either case, it comes across as one of the adjectives above, rather than a sustainable, motivating dare.

Anyway, maybe we agree to disagree, or if we want to disagree on such a marginal point, maybe we could have a beer summit at some government building somewhere. As I think I am in a fairly small minority in seeing things this way, no need to hurry.

OK...Ok... Let's go to the tape.

Every time I see that, I think somebody is going to have an aneurysm.

Guys,

First off all, many thanks to all for your input and keeping this going with minimal tangents. A special shout out to Whyjustrun for the artwork.

To all, especially Gruver and Cristina. This is part of a marketing exercise and will lead to something bigger and more tangible. I am searching for the cornerstone of our sport, the thing that makes us different, that makes us stand out, that will appeal to the heart and the head of future, and potential, orienteers.

I'm just taking advantage of a global community and a minimal budget.

Keep em coming. Stay on point.

Glen

The problem is that orienteering is many things for many people.

For the fast and experienced, it's extreme cross-country running with enough navigation to keep it interesting.

For the slow and inexperienced, it's extreme navigation with enough cross-country walking to make it possible.

Two different sports - or rather, one sport and one organized youth group activity.

Has this approach been successful as a marketing campaign for any other sport?

I don't think it's an uncommon approach. It's a challenge, it makes you want to ask more. Competitive people like this. It certainly works in a few really common areas, like the Marines with "The Few, the Proud, the Marines." I think SAS has used "Are you tough enough?" There are plenty of races out there with similar catch-phrases. People want to do something that's tough. I don't think I'm alone in being way more interested in a sport with good competitive possibilities than one without. I know, not everyone who orienteers is interested in the competition, but we all want the same thing: more quality opportunities to orienteer. You know what kind of people often put on great events? Hyper-energetic and super competitive people.

BTW, the amount of toughness required to orienteer is quite subjective. I could argue that it doesn't require any kind of special toughness to run a marathon, but it's surely the case that not everyone has the guts and discipline to do it. The same could be said of orienteering. If orienteering didn't require some kind of extra toughness, I wouldn't do it.

Right. US Marines and SAS have a well-earned and understood reputation for toughness. It is part of their ethos. It works.

Now if I were a soi-disant "tough guy" looking for new (proverbial) hills to climb and Daniel Hubmann or Helena Jansson asserted of their sport "You can't handle it" I might be inclined to see for myself. And more than likely I would find that no--I can't--not like they do, but these guys apparently can, and they can back it up. Maybe I am not as tough as I thought I was, but I like a challenge. I'll see if I can handle it with a lot of effort and investment of time.

Now, apologies in advance... if Vladimir were to assert our putative mantra to me (again a "tough guy"), I might discover that apparently I can handle it. Yawn. Next.

Framed differently, and extremely, imagine (ignorant versions of) Vladimir and I asserting to Daniel Hubmann or Helena Jansson "You can't handle it." Absurd, no?

My point is that I don't see American orienteering being in a position to make challenges based on perceptions of relative toughness. I may hang with the wrong crowd and all, but I see it akin to the local constabulary looking at the Marines and trying to ape their slogan.

The subjective point is well taken, and I think my complaint hangs on that. And I am willing to postulate the prototypical American couch potato as our target. I still don't think it works.

Sure, it would be tough to the couch potato, but so would a lot of things. Things that both exude and cultivate a reputation for toughness (Rugby, maybe) and things that are tough, but are found to be (experientially) despite unformed reputations (that is, "toughness" is not part of their denotation.) For better or worse, American orienteering is not a "tough" sport. It may be tough, without being perceived or understood as such. That isn't the point. But, if we are looking for a marketing slogan of what American orienteering is or could be, I think that is an important consideration.

I think there may be a common denominator to people who put on great events and super competitive people, but there is not a one to one correspondence. No direct causality. No iff.

And the shared factor(s) paradoxically often mean that you don't get a chance to test this proposition.

For better or worse (probably better) super competitive people need to compete and the best competitors at sports are often hard pressed to be at the top and give a lot back at the same time. So, those who seek competition need to seek it out and prepare for it, rather than putting on great events.

Anecdotally, I think it really plays out this way.

US orienteering needs to correct the view of many (who've heard of the word) that it's a bearing-and-pace-count exercise. I rather like "extreme cross-country" and "navsport".

I talk about it to non-orienteers and it takes them forever to learn that it's "orienteering" and not "orientation."

I, for one, am put off by "You can't handle it". Could be the machismo--you do want to attract adventurous women too, don't you? There's gotta be something better.

Has this approach been successful as a marketing campaign for any other sport?



The Dare.

Mad River Glen's slogan is less threatening than "You can't handle it".

Right. And a lot less threatening, IMHO, than "You can't handle it".

The Mad River Glen slogan feels like the subjunctive to me. Which is generally more polite when making exhortations or throwing down the gauntlet, 'as it were.'

out of pity for Glen, I will attempt to end this tangent and give a one word answer

To me orienteering = community

but to sell the sport to others I might try

orienteering is better
orienteering = joy

to use emoticons:
orienteering is :)

or to turn it on it's head a bit
orienteering is not your run-of-the-mill sporting event

Of course the absolute vodka advertising campaign was very successful without needing to settle on just one keyword. The creativity of MasterCard Priceless and Absolute "Noun" was a real plus to their branding.

Absolute Route Choice

Also brilliant. Could you perhaps rotate the leg 45 degrees clockwise?

[edit] or 90? I guess I should get some sleep.

orienteering = the-wrong-word

It is still the case that people I talk to, more often than not, on hearing the word "orienteering", seem to imagine boy scouts doing pace and compass exercises at summer camp. While I have nothing against boy scouts, pace and compass exercises, or summer camp (all of which I've participated in), that is not what the sport is to me, nor, I think, the best way to market it. We all have a semiosis of the word that means what we know it means, but we are not marketing to ourselves.

Marketing is still about image conjuration. What image do you wish to conjure when the name of the sport is mentioned? Work backwards and find a new name.

Preposterous? Possibly. But, in these threads, we've been asked to think preposterously, and many have taken advantage of that opportunity :) If the US can break with the rest of the world and call "football" "soccer", or break with the rest of the world and use a ridiculous system of units, why not break with the rest of the world and come up with a name that actually conjures an image of what the sport is?

"orienteering = you can't handle it", etc., just doesn't work, because you still don't know what it is, and because you have memories of pace counting thru multi-flora rose at summer camp the last time you heard that word, you really don't care, or want to handle it.

At least tell me what it is or why I should care in your slogan. At least I know "Mad River Glen- Ski it if you can" is about skiing. I've always liked 'map racing'. Its bad, but better than 'orienteering'. At least it gives me a clue of what it may be about, and conjures images of sport and competition.

"Map racing" (despite technically being two words) really gets at the essence of what I think our sport is all about. While it may be a bit awkward, it is succinct, accurate, and relevant.

Although, it really does make it a different exercise if we allow ourselves > 1 word.

Nontrail.

mapventure

Ross, I like:

orienteering is :)

That could go on a t-shirt...

Orienteering=unique
i don't think i will ever find another sport as good as this.
Orienteering=irreplaceable

orienteering = control

orienteering = awareness

Orienteering = ?

Thats just what it is. you never know.

The Mad River Glen slogan feels like the subjunctive to me.

Mad River Glen's clever slogan also has the advantage of being (I assume) intentionally ambiguous in its meaning, because it can be interpreted as the entirely non-threatening "ski it if you have the opportunity".

After skimming this thread, I think to the right of = should be 2-3 words, more impact than the single one suggested, in my mind.

...a map, running, nirvana...etc

Work backwards and find a new name.

I think that's worth considering, but I've never heard a suggestion that seemed good enough to make the break with the international convention.

Also, I don't think for a second that "Orienteering - you can't handle it" should be the slogan for orienteering. I just think it's potentially a good marketing idea. There are lots of markets out there with potential orienteers, and each one may need a different way to reach them.

The "Swedish chicks" and variants of the theme might be good recruiting methods for new male juniors.

How about something to do with the fact that you can do it at 10 or 80? The idea is not new, but it's never been a slogan. The sport for all ages. I'm terrible at this, but there have been so many good ideas flowing here that this might set you off on another path with great ideas.

Then there is always "Do it in the woods"

fun!

I kinda like "You can't handle it" but can also see exactly what the objection is. How about retaining the basic sense, keeping an element of confrontation but diluting the exclusion....

Orienteering - can YOU handle it?

How about an interrogative form of Donna's suggestion. Something like "Can you do it in the woods?" ;-)

Besides all these good ideas, Kat's thread of over 300 posts might provide some interesting ideas for "Orienteering = ?" particularly if we're going to accept multi-word phrases. Many creative hours went into that thread....

You know you're an orienteer when....

i.e....
(1) orienteering = pride in your scratches and bruises
(2) orienteering = optimizing the route to the supermarket
(5) orienteering = maps by the toilet
(11) orienteering = Gu for lunch
(14) orienteering = never being lost (but occasionally make 2 minute mistakes)
(16) orienteering = contempt for GPS

Orienteers - run the country

Orienteers - do it in the bush

How about something to do with the fact that you can do it at 10 or 80? The idea is not new, but it's never been a slogan.

We have used "The Sport of a Lifetime" before. I think the brochures that USOF provides to clubs have that title.

Exercises like these are really difficult. We may find that we cover a lot of ground and end up back where we started. For my part, I am going to go re-read Quine. He spent a better part of his distinguished career tackling issues (a little) like these. Maybe I will find some answers there.

Hope this doesn't get too far off course.

Yes, if you google "Sport of a Lifetime" you will get hits for Orienteering. Also Table Tennis, Golf, Sport Fishing, Alipine Ski Racing, Disc Sports, Roller Skating, and Curling.

"Sport for all Ages" will bring up martial arts, tennis, paddling, surfing, figure skating, BMX racing, fencing, nascar, cylocross, telemark, cricket, and my favorite: Birkenhead carpet bowling society. A sport promoted to "prevent young men from partaking in alcohol and mischief" ;-)

Now how is that for a marketing strategy?

Thank you, blegg. It's a truly dreadful slogan. Even if it's true.

orienteering = maprace
orienteering = maprun
orienteering = maphike
Put a dotCOM after each one and see what happens.

The "Swedish chicks" and variants of the theme might be good recruiting methods for new male juniors.

Possibly. Unless you're hoping for some degree of truth in advertising. I wouldn't exactly describe orienteering as a great place to meet girls (despite the fact that I have managed to do it myself).

Harvey says:
Orienteering = encompassing

thank you, randy!

it's about time... orienteering... whuh? I totally agree the sport needs a new name!!!

Map running is to the point.

Grab a map and go! Don't get lost!

Randy makes a good point, but his examples suck ;-) Seems to us "foreigners" that Americans tend to change helpful names (such as football - probably a game that has something to do with kicking a ball) to useless names (like soccer) - quite the opposite of what Randy's suggesting.

I think "Running Wild" is not bad descriptiveness

Can You handle it?

To me the value of this phrase is exactly that it shocks peoples' pre-existing notions of what orienteering is. And that pre-existing notion is something that should be targetted to be destroyed.

As to the question of are we overstating it, I would say we aren't.

On the physical side, based on very approximate numbers of personal experience, and assuming our target would be people that already are runners:
* over 50% of runners, at least, think trail running is crazy dangerous (you could trip over a root, or twist your ankle on a rock)
* of the rest, I doubt more than 10% would consider running through the dark and scary forest.
* so, I figure only about 5-10% of runners are tough enough to even try it

On the mental side, again based on personal observation, I would say hardly anyone is smart enough, or mentally tough enough to accept being beaten by old slow guys who out-think and out-navigate them. You can feel "stupid" pretty easily in this sport. And in my opinion, other than motor racing, there is no sport that requires such intense uninterrupted concentration - it is absolutely mentally exhausting.

So I would say that I have no worries claiming to be "tough" and claiming that all my orienteering friends are "tough" too.

[Edit] When the World Police Fire games were held in Calgary a number of years ago the SWAT teams wanted to have the toughest event in the games. They chose orienteering and told us there was only one requirement - it had to be tougher than all the other sports. We set a pretty normal course really.

(And tough? When I took the SWAT guy into the forest to show him the course, as we got out of his car he asked what I did about bears. I told him sometimes I took bear spray, but not with both of us there. He just smiled, popped the trunk and picked a revolver from a dizzying array of weapons. What a wimp ;-)

soccer is widely used this side of the Atlantic... asSOCiation Football, as opposed to rugby football. There's nothing wrong with the term soccer. Now, calling that fancy dress party with tights and pads "football", on the other hand...

Orienteering is not a bad name. It just needs more exposure. Incidentally, met a couple on the T-bana this afternoon. Told them I did orienteering. Since they were visiting from Norway they understood, although neither of them did it. The girl was from Venezuela and starting telling us how the sport was created in Sweden as a military activity...

Hardcore Orienteering Terrain is HOT

HOT = Hardcore Orienteering Terrain

Orienteering=location, location, location

No,
Orienteering = relocation, relocation, relocation

Orienteering = Location? Relocation. Location!

orienteering = adrenaline

Orienteering = Cartophilia

(OK, that sounds a bit suspect...)

Orienteering=location, location, location

I always thought that orienteering has three locations:
1. where you want to be
2. where you are
3. where you think you are

Orienteering skill is measured by how close these three places are to each other.

orienteering = challenge

=adventure

I think Hammer's suggestion of using O instead of orienteering is the way to go. Using mapracing or variants leads to similar problems as using orienteering - there could still be a lot of misconceptions. Using O makes it somewhat mysterious to the uninitiated but could prompt further investigation.

I have a commercial running in my head where it starts with "O?" and then there are shots of people racing through the woods and someone says "Oh" with maybe a slight questioning inflection, and then a little kid racing down a trail and someone else says "Oh" with a slightly different inflection, and then a shot of someone looking at a map with another "Oh", an elite sprinting over boulders and then there's another "Oh" with a bit more admiration in it, and a shot of something at WOC with another "Oh", and some others, and then ending with an "O!" while someone says "Oh" and it sounds definitive like the person saying it gets what it is.

I'm with Ross. orienteering = :)

As we say at West Point

Go O!

The most recent issue of Backpacker magazine had a showdown between Boy Scouts and experienced adult backpackers in various outdoorsy disciplines. One of those disciplines was "orienteering", which consisted of distance and bearing exercises to find random objects in the woods.

So, not only do we have the Boy Scouts not understanding true orienteering, but we have a reputable outdoor magazine under the same incorrect assumption!

Maybe Glen Schorr can invite someone from Backpacker to attend a US championship event sometime...

They've occasionally included quotes/"ask the expert" from real orienteers re: navigating (within the past few years; can't remember when), but otherwise it seems that they don't "get it."

Ok so i'm a bit late in this thread from being in Europe all summer.

With the whole Orienteering being the wrong name. Yes fine people don't understand what it is right way. That is annoying, but it means that we get to explain what it actually is and then people ask me a TON of questions. If i said i played Tennis, I think the answer would be "oh cool". Our sport has an "odd" name, But i'm sorry I COULD NOT call it anything else!!!! And actually orienteering makes total sense to me. And I have a total connection to the name. It makes me smile every time i hear the world. So that leads to some of my one words...

Orienteering = Friendship/family
Orienteering = Heart-racing
Orienteering = addiction
Orienteering = a-drug
Orienteering = self-reliance
Orienteering = Life
Orienteering = Love
Orienteering = The real XC race
Orienteering = Dedication
Orienteering = Laughs
Orienteering = life-long-learning
Orienteering = seeing-the-world
Orienteering = Empowered
Orienteering = Pioneering
Orienteering = Adventure

Running + Map + compass + adventure = Orienteering

As for the Boy scouts not knowing what orienteering really is... well why don't we start there? Why don't we have a camping/ad just for them? Or talk to the head of the Boy Scout community and see if they will let us help them rewrite their orienteering curriculum? I'm not sure what they could really do for us in return other than hopefully produce more orienteers and spread the word. But really that is the goal here.

"The "Swedish chicks" and variants of the theme might be good recruiting methods for new male juniors.

Possibly. Unless you're hoping for some degree of truth in advertising. I wouldn't exactly describe orienteering as a great place to meet girls (despite the fact that I have managed to do it myself)."

I think it is the other way around. I'm sorry but there are more guys than girls in orienteering. It is a great place for girls to meet guys! Which is not at all a bad thing! Orienteering Guys are awesome!

Great post, Alison! Welcome back!

BTW, as far as I know, I am the only orienteering Guy. ;-)

=Gueorgioues

Orienteering =
http://picasaweb.google.dk/tutzon/WOC2009Stafet#53...

In view of the relays...

Orienteering = sportsmanship

orienteering=really boring forums

A picture is worth a thousand words and that picture is just awesome. That evokes orienteering to me. (And you can even see the map and compass :) )

How many Orienteering Guys are there? :)

My database has 8 Guys as First name and one as last name

Carolyn and Guy Moore, LAOC
Guy Dean, QOC
Guy Andrews, LAOC
Jasmine Guy, PHS JROTC
Guy Johnson, FT DORCHESTER
Guy Olsen, HVO
Guy Whittaker, BAOC
Guy Hithe, LAOC
Guy Littleton, QOC