Discussion: Inov-8 philosophy

I was on the Inov-8 website and came across the following:

"Running bare foot is associated with a substantially lower prevalence of acute and chronic injuries to the ankle and lower limbs, so, the inov-8 team designs all our footwear range to allow the foot the freedom to move and function as nature intended, without interference from the structure of the shoe."

But when I go to my local running shoe store, they put me on a treadmill and take a video of me running barefoot. They find that I am a pronator and fit me with a shoe that limits my pronation, in other words they fit me with a shoe that interferes with the natural movement of my feet. The running store people claim that this will prevent knee and hip injury.

So who is on the right track?

Perhaps the way you run barefoot on a treadmill for a short period of time is not the nature movement of your feet. Perhaps if you ran barefoot for a long period of time, your feet would adjust.

The two philosophies might not be contradictory.

well I'm not going to run barefoot, so the practical question is: should a pronator buy a shoe that limits pronation or an Inov-8 shoe that does not?

Are you unsatisfied with the shoes you currently wear? on a pragmatic level "if it's not broke, don't fix it."

That being said, my inov8s 212s are my favorite shoes, probably the flexibility of the shoe is part of that. I wore the 330s for a couple of months (until they deterior8ed) and I didn't find them to be very flexible. I liked them just fine too.

actually I am looking for orienteering shoes for my son Jaxon who has inherited my pronation. He likes his current shoes for trail running, but is looking for a more agressive shoe for orienteering. This will be his first "orienteering shoes". The VJ Integrator is made for pronators from what I've read, and the Mudclaw according to one website is for neutral or under pronators.

I'm totally talking out of my elbow here, but I'm inclined to believe that things like pronation control matter a lot less for woods running, where your footstrike is different every step, than for pavement running.

When I was a teenager I would get terrible tendinitis that kept me from running, and it was due to extreme overpronation (my 'feet were attached to my legs wrong' said the doc). I think it has corrected a bit over time, but I have still occasionally had repetitive/overuse type injuries while running on the road a lot. Never had a problem while running in terrain/trails a lot, even with skimpy shoes like the X-Talons.

I agree with Cristina. Pronation is pretty irrelevant on totally uneven ground where every landing is different anyway. Go with what you find comfortable for orienteering.

As for other running, probably depends on whether you can do enough running barefoot / in shoes with little support to get all relevant foot muscles etc working properly without getting injured as to whether you go for light shoes or anti-pronation ones...

If you're running as much as you want to and not getting injured, don't change it for the sake of change.

I also agree - obviously your foot needs more '360-degree' movement when tackling terrain or contouring - for example, when I take my road-shoes across a grass slope I really have to think about foot placement. With inov8s there's no need - unless they've rubbed your foot to blisters!

No one has mentioned the colours and how they look?
What, you people pick your shoes based only on their function?

+1 for what Cristina said. In my early running career (track and roads) I suffered all kinds of knee and lower leg pains because they hadn't invented the modern "stability/control" running shoe yet. After college I was fitted for custom rigid orthotics which made a miraculous difference by controlling pronation. Until I discovered orienteering much later in life, I felt compelled (in actuality, I don't know) to continue wearing the orthotics and buying special pronation control shoes.
However, now that I do a lot more running off-road, I was able to chuck the orthotics and, for actual competition, wear all sorts of neutral (non-control) shoes without any problems as far as I can tell.
In fact, in light of the recent "barefoot" and similar style advice, I've been trying to move away from the heavy heel-strike form I used to have (which I think invites more pronation problems). As a result, I can now run on roads fine without my orthotics and "mild" stability shoes (Saucony Guide for those that would care...)

running barefoot isn't "recent", we've been doing it for a few hundred thousand years.

heel striking isn't running, its a quick succession of accelerations and decelerations. bad for you feet, legs, knees, hips and back.

ever seen a kenyan heel strike?

Thats the crux of it - foot strike. Our "mainstream" pronation control shoes are designed to protect and stabilise the heel striking runner (whether or not they achieve this is debatable). The so called "barefoot" running movement promotes a mid-foot strike, allowing the arch of the foot to act as suspension (apparently its natural movement) and therefore not requiring a thick wad of cushioning for the heel, or pronation control systems blah blah blah. All of which is largely academic for orienteers who run in terrain and don't require protection from repetitive heel striking anyway...

ever seen a kenyan heel strike?

Yes. Oh, you mean Paul Tergat and Martin Lel? I think you'll find most Kenyans move a bit slower than them.

Insisting on mid-foot striking with runners moving at 9 minutes per mile is a bit unrealistic. Far more important than what part of the foot is striking is how often it's striking. A faster turnover means less time in the air between footfalls and necessarily a softer landing. Incorporating strides into a few runs every week will go a long way towards reducing repetivie impact injuries.

If you want to dispel the myth that fast runners all have perfect mechanics, take a look at the cover of Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning. Here we have an elite pack of runners. Take a look at their feet. The Mongolian dude is totally heel striking. The guy from Africa is supinating so badly that you could cut off his big toe and he'd never know it. Yet these folks are probably running sub-5's.

I've raced in Inov8s, and I've raced barefoot. Both are good in the right circumstances, but I can't say I noticed the similarity - sounds like marketing b*ll*cks. The main thing you need in O-shoes is good grip: Inov8s are OK for mild terrain. I'm with Cristinah's elbow on pronation control off road (and stray aitches).

Cadence and foot strike are key. Contemporary, over-engineered running shoes are bad form enablers. Wearing motion control shoes invariably keeps you from finding that ideal (and unique for each person) blend of fast turn-over and gentle landing because they almost encourage heel strike and "bounding". And cushioned shoes are pointless in the woods.

The less shoe the better. That's why Inov8's statement resonates. Another shoe to look at is the recently released NB MT100. But to really find what your own natively appropriate cadence and footstrike blend is, Vibrum Five Fingers provide the best shortcut. You almost HAVE to run at 85-90 beats per minute (the naturally perfect cadence for humans according to Chi-Running) while landing flat-footed (or even on the balls of your feet) when running, effectively, bare foot.

It's all very personal, but I would rather work out the best running form for me than rely on a pair of running shoes to impose an arbitrary running form on me.

As is pointed out in "Born to Run", per capita running injuries have increased dramatically since Nike invented the modern running shoe. Speaking personally, I was dogged by injury after injury for years. Since I began working on cadence and foot strike (and some other aspects of form, like posture and arm position)--and going to the lightest, least structured, most flexible shoe I could find (most notably VFF's), I have been largely injury free.

Trav, what would you use for something like the RTH?

I went with the NB 904s, which is a very light (not as light as the MT100'a, but light enough) neutral trail shoe. The RtH has some serious ups and downs and so a grippy set of lugs on the bottom seemed like the right thing. It's also a bit more protection for the foot. I rotate between the 904s, MT100's, and VFFs about evenly, but if I'm out for more than 2 hours, I pull out the 904's. The longest I've run on the VFF's to date is 1.5 hours. That's about all I care to do. They're a ton of fun, but they aren't the answer to peak oil, world hunger or climate change. Best to mix it up.

ok, what's a MT100, VFF, and RtH? shoe neophtye here only knows NB=New Balance...

VFF= Vibram Five Fingers (mentioned above). MT100 is a style of NB shoe.

RtH = Raid the Hammer adventure race (see GHO's page here), which took place earlier this month.

Not sure if it's being made into a film, but I was referring to the book Born to Run, by Chris McDougall. Engagingly written, it's part auto-biography, part exploration of endurance running, part anthropology of the persistence hunter theory of human evolution and part rockin' good race story. Here's a link:

http://www.amazon.com/Born-Run-Christopher-McDouga...

trav, which VFF model do you use?

RtH is the Salomon Dontgetlost.ca Raid the Hammer Adventure Run (not to be confused with multi-sport adventure racing). RtH is a 23-28K'ish hybrid of orienteering, trail running and road running in teams of three. It is the first of the three-race Salomon Dontgetlost.ca Adventure Running Series. The next race is Feb. 20th (Salomon Dontgetlost.ca Snowshoe Raid) and I highly doubt Trav will be VFF'ing it.

The Five Finger Snowshoe model hasn't been released. I'm running in KSOs (Keep Stuff Out) right now, but it's getting too cold to keep running in them. So I'm looking for a pair of Treks (which have an actual tread-each little piggy gets its own little lug) and the upper is made from kangaroo leather (heck, what else would it be made of?). The problem is that Vibrum has been far too successful to keep up with demand (Sergey Brin, the co-founder of Google wore a pair of VFF KSO's to the Chrome launch).

Insisting on mid-foot striking with runners moving at 9 minutes per mile is a bit unrealistic.

no it's not

Although I have run barefoot periodically for two years, I bought a pair of five fingers in August, but have gone to training barefoot almost exclusively and with my FF occasionally to really ingrain my new running form (and I love the feel of the ground on my feet). I run mostly on grass/mowed field, but have done some trail running and more and more road running barefoot. My problem is orienteering. I have run two local races recently in Inov-8 (Flyroc 310), but cannot run anything other than heel first in shoes. I was thinking of trying the Talons, but honestly have considered XC spikes with no real heel lift.

I have considered getting a pair of Treks, but the trend appears to gravitate towards more protection, only different...with the Treks (which has me skeptical)...

I haven't managed to go completely birthday shoe, though I have about 25 hours in my KSOs over the past few months. There's no question that maintaining a bare foot running form with shoes on is tough. I benefitted from some of the techniques in Chi-Running.

http://www.chirunning.com/shop/home.php

Which works toward landing on the whole foot, using the metaphor of running as a controlled fall. If you stand board-stiff and then just start toppling forward like a plank, your dominant foot will naturally stride forward. If you maintain this forward lean, your other foot will do the same. Link these together and you're running. Because of the forward lean (don't "pike"), your centre of gravity remains slightly ahead of your legs and your feet necessarily land flat. Speed is really a function of how aggressively you lean. This also transfers a lot of the muscle load from your quads to your glutes. Here's a pretty good summary from Wikipedia:

"The instruction focuses on several essential skills.

1 Aligning The body in a vertical Column.
2 Leaning forward while running so the runner is pulled by gravity.
3 Running with a midfoot strike.
4 Opening the stride out the back.
5 Minimizing Arm swing and keeping arms from crossing the centerline of the runners body.
6 Maintaining a set cadence throughout the run (using a metronome).
7 Speeding up or slowing down based on stride length, not cadence.
8 Relaxing the body, especially the lower extremities.
9 Body scanning to eliminate discomfort, tension, or pain.
10 Form Focusing to maintain alignment.

Another approach is that advocated by "Pose" runners, but it's a bit too militant about the landing on the ball of your feet thing. http://www.posetech.com/

hmm... 130 euros to run "as if bare-foot"... if only there was a cheaper option

ball-first is easier/more natural in Icebug-Spirits

The most useful visualization I got from the Chi running stuff was using the lean forward mentioned by trav as the "gas pedal" controlling speed. Once into the proper form (vertical alignment) and thinking "controlled fall", very subtle differences in lean cause one's speed to rise and fall without the usual sense of trying to run faster or slower.

I haven't tried any special shoes that support this form, but even with "normal" running shoes it is quite different than my ingrained heal strike.

Does Chi running technique work in terrain?

Chi running is by nature slower. How much slower is it?

Once changed over to the Chi technique and well practiced, will your speed eventually match your speed using the non-chi form?

There is a reason the best runners in the world don't run "chi" or "pose"

Definitely in agreement with Nixon (although still undecided about Chi)

Those who believe that slower runners 'have to' heel strike should try bare-footing even for a short easy jog. They'd soon find it 'harder' to heel strike than not. In fact the harder the ground, the more this point would be proved.

I used to live rurally, and ran primarily barefoot for years without a single problem (other than time spent taking out thorns of of my feet).

Within 3 months of eventually moving to a town and changing to running in expensive engineered shoes, all manner of knee, hip, and lower back problems started to show up.

Subsequently i was diagnosed as an overpronator, advised that I needed motion control shoes and orthotics, and most annoyingly that i should NOT to run off-road. I trusted all of this for quite a while but in the end NONE of these things fixed my problems. If anything they created more problems by weakening my body, and ultimately stifling any vague potential i had all those years ago.

I am now utterly convinced that best way to stay injury free is in fact as nature intended : No Roads, No Orthotics, No Motion Control, Just Running !

I do train occasionally in barefoot, but for the most part I now wear slimmed down racing inov8s off road for reasons of a) grip and b) saving time taking thorns out of my feet.

Chi running, or any of the named "schools" of running each try to look at running as a physical activity that can be analyzed and optimized--just like swimming or cycling. Indeed, most of them DO base their thinking on what the best runners in the world do. Many Kenyans ran barefoot into their teens out of necessity and so have high foot turnover and forward lean naturally. But it's important not to get all wound up about one particular style or another. There are some general principles that most runners would be well served to build into their technique and that the best runners do naturally. If you're prone to injury, running form is a prime suspect.

But we digress. If you're running in the woods, get the lightest shoe you can find that still has traction on the surfaces you'll encounter. Motion control shoes and cushioned shoes are pointless on trails.

My only argument (to myself) is that when I run barefoot (as created), I run totally differently than with running shoes...

I work for inov-8.

This is our latest statement regarding our philosophy (taken from the new trade workbook only released last week):

------
Take your shoes off, and now go for a run…

Immediately you’ll notice your running style changes; for starters you’ll land more on the midfoot and less on the heel. Running barefoot is associated with a substantially lower prevalence of acute and chronic injuries to the ankle and lower limbs.

Have you ever wondered why?

After millions of years of evolution, the human foot is a masterpiece of mechanical and structural design and within every runner there is a natural, efficient, running style.

Our philosophy is to design product around the natural function of the human body’s biomechanics. We look to the body’s innate movement for inspiration and guidance.

The human foot is perfectly adapted to accommodate variations in ground orientation and with each step, changes its mechanical characteristics from a flexible adaptive platform to a rigid propulsive lever.

Whatever the terrain, whatever the hill, however far over the horizon you intend to run, inov-8 footwear works in synergy with the natural biomechanics of the body, allowing the foot to do what it does best. Each shoe protects the foot, providing the wearer with a secure and intimate fit that’s almost like running barefoot.

We are not suggesting you run barefoot though…

Rocks, scree, stones, mud, grass, bush, thorns. Off-road running tackles a huge variety of terrain and it is simply not practical to run without shoes. Your feet need protection.

Whether you are an elite athlete or a recreational user, the inov-8 footwear range allows your foot the freedom to move and function as nature intended, without interference from the structure of the shoe.

We offer a range of shoes with different levels of cushioning (1 to 4 Arrow Under Foot Protection), varying differential (0-9mm – the difference in height between the heel and forefoot) and different outsoles to cope with different terrains. As you reduce the level of cushioning and differential, the foot gets ever closer to its optimum natural running position.

Our shoes protect the foot from the harsh external environment experienced by the off-road runner but maintain the feeling and function of barefoot running.

Because the lever effect of carrying 100g extra on your foot, uses the same amount of energy as carrying 500g on your back, we always strive to produce the lightest product in every sector, without compromising performance or durability.

With 30 off-road styles and counting, every runner can find the shoe that’s right for them in the inov-8 range.

We would all like to have a perfect, efficient, running style. Take one step closer today.
------

I haven’t read the entire thread but here are some observations:

inov-8 make a large range of off-road running shoes to cater for the wide range of foot types, running styles and terrain. Each runner (or orienteer) needs to select first an outsole unit that gives them the required grip, then look for the amount of underfoot protection (more on this in a sec) they need and finally select based on the shoe/foot shape (performance, comfort, womens fit etc).

inov-8 use a system called Shoc-Zone™, which provides underfoot protection. Other shoe companies call this cushioning. When you run off-road you typically want as little underfoot protection / cushioning as you are comfortable with as the more you have, the less stable the foot/ankle becomes. With inov-8 we offer 1, 2, 3 and 4 Arrow Shoc-Zone shoes (this is indicated by the little arrows on the heel of each shoe). It works a little like this:

1 Arrow
3mm Differential
Least underfoot protection
Most natural foot position
Forefoot strike

2 Arrow
6mm Differential
Low underfoot protection
Midfoot/Forefoot strike

3 Arrow
9mm Differential
Good underfoot protection
Heel / Midfoot strike

4 Arrow
12mm Differential
Maximum underfoot protection
Least natural foot position
Heel strike

So, for a heavier runner, running mainly on hard trails, used to cushioned road shoes go for a 4 Arrow shoe. At the other end of the scale, for an elite runner (capable of sustaining a forefoot strike – this takes a lot more effort) go for the 1 Arrow shoe.

Differential… this is the difference in height between the heel and toe of the midsole. The greater the differential, the higher the heel and the less natural position the foot is held in by the shoe. As an extreme example a ladies high heel shoe would have a huge differential. A typical road running shoe will have a differential of circa 20mm so with an inov-8 off-road shoe (max differential of 12mm) you are already running much closer to the ground, which is more stable, less likely to cause injury and a more natural foot position.

I suppose the thrust of all inov-8 shoes is to allow the runner to choose whichever shoe works best for them but always working with the natural biomechanics of the foot and body rather than creating more technology and marketing BS!

Thanks Shane,
What can you tell us about your upcoming O-Roc 240 ??
and, most selfishly, about their availability & distribution in the US.

Maybe some of the Brits who've been wearing them can comment???

I'm excited about that one! Not sure about the funky contour motif or the lace guard (which may be a good idea, who knows) but everything else seems right on target.

I'll be excited about the lace guard if it means I can stop taping my laces before every run.

And the contour motif is hot.

I have been an Inov-8 fan from the beginning wearing out at least two pair of Flyroc, having problems with keeping studs on the 330's which I loved, going back to Flyroc, but now struggling to run comfortably in them since I am training heavily barefoot and in VFF's. I will look towards trying the Talon for orienteering

From what I can tell, Inov-8 is on the right track. However, they are hardly trailblazers in this area. Jalas, VJ, and many others have been making O-shoes for years with soles only thick enough to provide grip and protection from sharp objects on the forest floor. If you're looking to run in the woods, there are plenty of good options out there. If you want to run on grass or a synthetic track, go barefoot if you please. A racing flat or very lightweight trainer will work on pavement without messing up your "barefoot" stride. The market that appears to be underserved to me is ultra trail running. O-shoes are too stiff to run 100 miles in and almost all trail runners have a big fat heel.

Personally, I seem to be one of those folks that through no fault of my own can run pretty much as much as I want on any surface in any shoe and not get injured. However, it would be nice if someone would come out with a real trail runner with a narrow and thin heel, decent grip, and just enough stiffness to protect the foot from stones (which are really hard to avoid at 3AM when you've already got 70 miles in). Maybe Inov-8's latest line meets this. If it comes in a wide, I'll buy 'em.

thanks S0S7, very helpful info

I've been testing the O-Roc (not the 280, but the slightly heavier duty 340). I've taken it out on some pretty rough sessions (including two days of the White Rose - it doesn't get much rougher than that), and it has stood up well so far.

The dobs are set quite deep in the stud, so they don't protude that much - this means that they give traction on rock, etc, without being the only thing you can feel when you run on a track or road. It also means that they are not going to rip out, which was the flaw of the previous Inov-8 o shoes.

They offer much more comfort than a 'traditional' o shoe with low profile some cushioning and a soft inner. It feels more like a trainer than an o shoe. I would wear it as a milage shoe for terrain running rather than a racing shoe, which is what the trimmed down 280 is designed for. All in all it seems like a lot of thought has been put into them - it's good to see some alternatives to the standard glued sole and plastic upper approach of VJ and Jalas.

no 2-arrow shoes for women yet? There is no 1-arrow option in the search list either. Am I looking in the wrong place?

and why can't I see any of the O Roc shoes on the website?

Inov8 dobs look like a really good idea. Do they get heavy when wet like the mudrocs? (does anyone know shoe weights when wet). Are they narrow or widefitting?

I've just bought yet another pair of Walsh PBs. I don't think they've had a new model for 30 years, they're just a really grippy sole plus a little bit of upper and lace to hold them onto your foot. They just forgot to call it a "philosophy". What else do you need?

Woolies Plimsolls anyone?

I could not find any 1-arrow shoes on the INOV8 website either

Do Inov8 models come in widths? I've always been interested, but assumed they were built on an overly narrow last, like Salomon. I have 2E feet.

EBuckley, I mentioned the New Balance MT100 earlier on in this thread. They were designed in consultation with the ultra running community. They are a very simple, very comfortable, extremely light shoe (7.5 ounces for my size 11.5 pontoons), that have worked really well for me.

I'll be excited about the lace guard if it means I can stop taping my laces before every run.

Tape? Have JJ show you how to tie your O shoes and you'll never need to tape your laces again.

People keep telling me that, showing me all sorts of secret Swedish knots, and then there are two problems: 1) I'm an idiot at knots and 2) even when someone ties it for me, it still comes undone. I like my tape.

Totally agree with Graeme, if you want a minimalist terrain shoes then walshes are the way forward. just a nice deep waffel and a bit of cloth, prefontaine style!

They are a bit heavier when wet of course, but seem pretty good. The 280s will perform much the same as the x-talons, since the upper is almost the same, and they will be the lightest o shoe available. My feet are fairly wide and within a couple of runs they felt very comfortable.

The lace guard will be used on the heavier model, it's useful for training in snow and ice, since it stops the laces from freezing, but also good for keeping the knot secure I suppose.

I've got the secret Swedish knot to work OK, but it still doesn't stop your lace from getting snagged on a branch and tripping you. I tape. A lace gaurd might be nice.

Back somewhat on thread, I was thinking about my earlier statement about how I don't get injured (I'm really tempting fate by making such claims, but it's true, 1 overuse injury in 40 years of running). However, it does occur to me that my first 5000 or so miles of running were exclusively barefoot. And that wasn't on grass either - that was running concrete streets in the city. Perhaps doing that at such a young age (I started daily running at age 8) helped develop a stride that is less likely to cause injury. Just a thought.

My wife has excellent form and is never injured and spent her childhood running barefoot on the "farm"...I learned running from soccer, which is a poor teacher for running form...so now at 47 I feel like I have to relearn how to run!

inov-8 will be launching three very exciting new orienteering shoes in April 2010. Each new shoe is characterised by being innovative, lightweight, durable and working with the natural biomechanics of the foot, all of which fully embraces inov-8’s natural off road running philosophy.

Exclusive to all our orienteering shoes is the patent-pending oroc™ outsole featuring tungsten carbide metal dobs, dual density rubber and the Protec-Shank™. The oroc™ 340 won the prestigious European OutDoor Innovation award in July 2009 for its oroc™ outsole and Protec-Shank™, which is found on all three of inov-8’s new orienteering shoes. The award winning features include mushroom shaped dobs that are surrounded by hardened dual density rubber within the oroc™ outsole. This dual density rubber prevents the dobs from being ripped out (in over 1 year of testing this has never happened) while the softer, sticky rubber provides superb grip on rock. Protecting the foot from the impact of the studs is the Protec-Shank™, which feature independently moving, flexible fingers of support that absorb impact above each dob yet still allow the shoe to flex, mimicking the natural running action of the foot.

oroc™ 280 – The World’s lightest Orienteering Shoe

The oroc™ 280 offers an incredible fusion of low weight, superb traction and maximum breathability. It is a performance racing shoe designed to make the difference when every second counts. The microfibre tongue ensures that the shoes remain comfortable event when laced tightly and provides additional protection from dirt and debris. The uppers are made from the same material as the World Championship winning x-talon™ 212 are do not absorb any water, which means the oroc™ 280 remains light and fast regardless of the underfoot conditions. Capable of producing winning splits in all types of terrain, the 2 Arrow Shoc-Zone™ under foot protection provides instant proprioceptive response to changes in ground type and aspect.

oroc™ 340 – Comfort Orienteering Trainer/Racer

Taking the principles of low weight, superb traction and maximum breathability from the OROC™ 280, the OROC™ 340 is beefed up with additional padding to improve comfort and a more substantial rand to provide increased levels of protection and durability. The OROC™ 340 is perfect for classic races, long training sessions and for any orienteer looking for more comfort than is offered by traditional O shoes.

oroc™ 350 - Winter Orienteering Trainer/Racer

With 3 Arrow Shoc-Zone™ under foot protection, the OROC™ 350 completes this range of orienteering footwear and with different levels of cushioning. The Velcro sealing lace guard provides enhanced protection from dirt and debris and prevents the laces freezing together when used in winter conditions. Perfect for those cold Scandinavian mornings… and afternoons! The additional 1 Arrow Shoc-Zone™ under foot protection over the oroc™ 280 and 340 mean that the oroc™ 350 is better suited to heavier orienteers running on harder ground, who want greater levels of comfort.

The new OROC 340s ... talk about O' stylish! I think I need these. ;) An O' map on the skin:

thats a nice looking shoe and assuming a 5m contour interval that is a serious hil.

I emailed a Toronto store that is listed on the Inov8 web site as a supplier asking if they would be able to bring in these shoes. Their response was that Inov8 is no longer distributed in Canada and one must purchase online through US outlets. There are a handful of Canadian suppliers on the website. Anyone know more about this.

Yep, its true, sort of. Inov-8 does not have a distributor in Canada anymore, but are still available in Canada. Retailers that want to carry them (I know a place *cough*) just have to order them from the US distributor instead.... which we do (fasttraxskishop.com).

No news on Orocs in Canada yet, though, I wouldn't expect to see them here until the new year at the earlier. Then again, they could show up tomorrow. Ah... the mysteries of retail.

Any chance the new Orocs will be demo'ed (or better yet available) at the Inov-8 Open House in a couple weeks?