Discussion: Bendigo Ironman: Results and format ideas

The results are up on the Bendigo Orienteers web site. I notice that AJ has recorded an unusually high heart rate. I think this is the event for intense heart rates. You people can't resist a pack in front. For comparison, here are the kilometre rates for this years Easter Prologue and the Ironman races. As course setter for both, and given they were on the same map, I think the last race is probably the closest comparison to the Easter Prologue. Both were in similar mining and open spur gully. The Prologue is 3k, not 2, but by the beginning of the fourth ironman race, you have already run 3 by 2k races at a heady pace. My conclusion is that the Ironman is run harder. Less navigation and more pressure.

NAME I1 I2 I3 I4 Prologue
Arthur Bruce 4.32 6.055 4.56 5.42 5.28
Barr Evan 4.515 6.145 5.015 5.14 6
Fell Rob 5.035 6.465 5.375 6.25
Feuerherdt Craig 5.505 10 5.265 6.36 7.2
Jackson Adrian 4.245 5.485 4.525 5.005 5.17
Keely Brian 4.475 6.19 5.06 5.25 6.17
Keely Leon 4.38 6.225 4.585 5.45 6.53
Liggins Paul 5.04 7.285 5.025 5.33 6
Watne Torgeir 5.175 7.29 6 6.28
Sorry about the formatting. Its too late to worry.

Some questions to you AP types who seem to favour our Bendigo Ironman and Skins sprints.

1. Kooyoora or Mt Korong as a venue. Its a bit further still. Would it be worth the distance. Should it be combined with another event over the weekend?

2. Would we be better off putting this on the State fixture?

3. Any suggestions for improvements of either format

For those of you who haven't been to an Ironman, here is the format.

Four races of 2 k each. Handicap based chasing starts with the aim of a blanket finish for each race. Race 1 is easy navigation, race 2 hard, race 3 moderate, race 4 hard. Results are place based, with the total of best 3 places counting, so you have a strategic decision of whether to run 3 or 4 races. This was based on the Australian surf ironman format (loosely). The format produces sprint finishes between strange rivals, such as juniors and elites.
The Skins format is 3 races of 2 k, each a mass start. The first raceis used ot divide the field into an A and B semi final. The second race (semi final) has two mass starts, with the B finalists starting a minute efter the A semi finalists. The first 2/3 of the A field is in the A final. Places over the line are used to place runners in the A,B or C final. B final start 1 minute after the A, and the C's another minute later. It was based on the golf skins format.

Bruce made the following comment elsewhere.

Irrespective of the Ironman location, I'd like to keep a State Series at Kooyoora each year. Last year the Nuggets introduced a Kooyoora Classic award for the winner of M/W21 courses. This will be up for grabs again next weekend over the 2 days. If BG don't want to organise, YV or MFR could do it.
It would be great to get the Queen's Birthday weekend back in that region. What about Saturday afternoon Skins at Kooyoora, Sunday Long at Kooyoora, Monday Middle at Korong??

My response. bendigo is generally sticking to one SL and one other event of non SL format each year. We want to experiment a bit. With both Korong and Kooyoora to choose from, we have informally tossed around the idea of offering Kooyoora to MFR next year anyway. We know you would set good courses! The constraint with Kooyoora is we can only run two events a year, one each for YVV and BGV. So your proposal fits within that constraint. Two days raise some questions:

Saturday skins... yes, easier than an ironman with numbers rocking up. Would probably need to be done with SI if the event was open to all comers. By emphasising it's spint nature, my uneducated guess is you may get 50 people. At 25 a race that is probably manageable. Would anyone have the energy for a following single ironman race limited to those with reliable handicaps? Would MFR be interested in organising this day? Given the smaller numbers, proximity to a toilet is desirable. That leaves the upper car park, as the lower is probably not as good for a sprint. If the budget ran to a loo on wheels, then a start near the entranc to the park would be very suitable terrain.

Sunday SL Kooyoora: Would fall to YVV so they would need to be in the loop on this. Coordination between course setters require dif there is a common start area.

Monday: Middle at Korong. A middle for courses 1,2,3? Classic or sliding from middle towards classic for the rest. If we advertise a middle for the shorter courses, there would be quite a few grumbles. I'm the nominated course setter for this event and I think thats quite manageable. ust need to push it through the 'Technical Committee'. A classic is possible if we use a little extra terrain on the mount that wasn't on the AMDC map. Its steep, but quite complex and very interesting.

Ironman is faster because you hardly need to look at your map when there is a large field. I think it works well with small fields, but becomes less orienteering and more a running race with larger fields (where people start every 10 seconds).

Scheduling for next year sounds ok. MFR could easily do a sprint on Saturday pm if BG wanted to concentrate on a Monday Mt Korong race.
We just need to give the ideas to Steve Peacock.
I agree that some older people don't like middle or sprint races. Just call it State Series and give them normal (but slightly shorter) courses and they won't notice.
For a sprint, we can just set one course. Elites will take 12 minutes, and others will still take 40+ mins because they run at the same pace no matter how long the course is.

I think the speed and following is a lesson for those people who usually run the same speed for everything. I have been pleased by the positive feedback from what you might call recreational jogging orienteers. Some had never run that fast before in a race and it was an insight to them. Someone else was intruiged to see the comparison of themselves against some of the best Australian runners. Its not often you get that in Bendigo. I owuldn't think this format would work if you ran it regularly. But it emphasises sprint speed and pack running for those who rarely experience it. The other really positive feature is the social nature of the event. I think that mass start or finish races are really valuable for that reason. I'd like to run a Billygoat sometime as well.
Next seasons fixture. I have already suggested to Steve Peacock the concept of a Kooyoora weekend on QB. Its the perfect locale for alead up to Dubbo. Running it as a sprint, classic, middle combination would be useful for our JWOC aspirants. Bendigo is hoping that includes Bryan and Clare. Based on the Easter results its not an unreasonable expectations. But I rememeber thinking that about Ilka as well a few years ago, and then Hanny and Grace appeared. We can't expect to be that lucky again.
Re the races per day. Saturday is obvious for the sprint I suspect. Is a classic best on Sunday or Monday. Do you want to run a Middle on legs that have done a classic? I don't think we need to worry about finishing early on Monday for visiting South Australians as they will be having their own big QB weekend.

but because it is on granite you may possible get visitors like simon. i dont know what nsw plan for there weekend but if its on granite grant will tell them to go to that if not then they will send them on to our weekend, so you may end up with some visitors.

Generally a shorter race is probably better on the last day for people wanting to get away. I suspect that we would attract at least some people from interstate.

Bruce wrote "...a shorter race is probably better on the last day..."

I used to think that too, but when we got to the nuts and bolts of actually planning each day, it always came down to the idea that you need less recovery after a short day, and the schedule always seemed more appealing when we saved the longest course for the last day.

Does that mean a sprint or middle on last day? Another ption for a sprint would be to use the private land section of the Mt Korong map. A middle could easily fit on the publi cland if we add the north side of the mountain (already mapped).