Discussion: Can't please all the people all the time...

We did a "Participant Survey" following Barebones this week. Had a great response rate, and some very helpful feedback.

But I got a chuckle out of some of the different points of view. Here are some of my favorite comments:

Lost Lake (Long)
* Fun location, interesting terrain, loved all the trails.
* Too many small trails,

Whistler Village (Sprint)
* smell of good coffee and breakfast a bit distracting ;)

Brandywine (Middle / WRE)
* world class terrain
* the best of the areas;
* This was an absolutely miserable experience for me….. It's safe to say I will not participate in another event at Brandywine.

Nesters Hill (Relay)
* Good course setting considering the potential for bad course setting
* the big hill off the start wasn't much fun
* you had such a smart first control that the crowd really got split well. Super fun, my favorite event in the end!
* who thought that you could pack 34 controls into one hill! My siblings are complaining in the background as I type this. They are wimps - this was a super course.

Stanley Park (long/sprint fusion)
* long race (almost 10K) without any route choice decisions. Sort of like a super string-O.
* Stanley Park is beautiful and it was a nice way to showcase a gem in the city

UBC (1.5 X sprint)
* I like to be out on the course for a longer time…
* Also a bit long for a sprint event...

General
* It was great to leave our vehicle parked for the better part of a week and walk to all the events except for Brandywine
* It was nice that bulk of the races were of walking distance...
* Schlep to arena was a bit long

Haha that's hilarious! definitely the best display of "you can't please everyone"!!!
thanks for sharing!

The only way to respond to this is to make sure everyone knows what to expect before they arrive.

...and it makes those of us who didn't go to Barebones wish we could have been there...to see what all the controversy was about!

Its certainly on my list to get to one.. bit of a trip though.

I wouldn't call this "controversy" - this is just an illustration of how, with almost 300 people at an event, there will be some people who like things a lot and others who really don't like the very same stuff.

As for making sure people know what to expect - there was very high scores for our event information both on the web and for our very cool meet information packet:-)

*I thought the fold-out race information packet was amazing. It was so professional looking, I almost threw it away thinking it was an advertisement. And it didn't just look good, it was very informative. Easily the best packet information I have ever received at an orienteering event"

So don't come for the controversy, come for the great orienteering ;-)
Possible future Barebones, to help you plan...
None of these are confirmed, but it is what we're talking about

2011 - Kimberly, to re-enjoy those brilliant NAOC maps (July)
2012 - Cypress Hills?? Maybe make a new map
2013 - pre-event for COCs in Alberta ????
2014 - ??
2015 - back in Whistler, maybe the COCs ????

The problem with too much good orienteering is that you can't get to all of it. There, you have it.

I was very pleased with Barebones. There were great maps, courses, enough drinking stations, great start field, and dence start times. Always feel that whenever i go to North America, the standards of races are just so high, and expect good organisation; kind of let down going back to Europe :-(

wish I got to do the Participant Survey, but i guess that´s what happens when I leave early... But was happy to be able to test run in Stanley Park, very cool to have new type of orienteering, of superfast running for longer periods of time, and many good route choice legs, but some (at least the most interesting ones) were in the city that was unfortunatelly cut out;

If you are going to have barebones at cypress hills area in 2012, I will seriously consider going to that. That was crazy good terrain.

Ooooohhhhh the fold-out race info packet!!!! by FAR the best I've ever seen. I actually even kept it with my maps!!!!

In case anyone is curious about the fold-out meet info packet, I've put it online. You can view the fold-out meet info sheet here. Warning - it is quite a huge PDF file. This is the pre-folded version of course. Imagine it folded into sixths vertically and [edit] thirds horizontally. The design & layout was done by Chris Piller, based on a similar idea from the Istanbul 5 Days. The folding was done by a few volunteers - though it should have been done by machine, if we'd figured out who to ask in time ;-(

Barebones was great!! And my kids actually preferred the chocolate over the stuff you put around your neck and can't eat ;-) Great chocolate!! And the fold-out map is also stored away with the maps - it was so handy and could be put in a pocket - I kept one in a small ziploc in my jacket throughout the event days.

AZ, that is awesome. Would you guys be willing to share the template you used? Which software did you use to make it?

I'll ask Chris. Chris, by the way, is a pro at this - he makes a living doing design and layout. His previous job, prior to his Barebones volunteer work, was a little project making all the maps for the Vancouver Olympics. We were extraordinarily lucky to have such a skilled design guy on the team.

The fold-out info sheet was excellent!

I had a hard time finding the Stanley Park event centre because I had misplaced it. Sure was relieved when I found it later in the day.

Wow!

AZ If you haven't cast anything in stone yet how about having the 2011 Barebones somewhere and some time that for a lot of people can be on the way by air to or from Whitehorse. As I understand it that would mean Vancouver (Whistler) or Edmonton. Or how about in the Whitehorse area itself?

I also vote 'BEST EVER' for the Barebones Map & Guide. Very colourful and very 'eco-friendly'. Volunteers hand folded them? No way!

It all looks very professional. Not at all 'barebones'. How barebones is barebones these days? Is it suffering from version 2 syndrome from the software world?
Curious from the other side of the ditch.

gordhun mentions travel by air from the Whitehorse events. I hope you'll consider those who might be travelling by ground as well, and also timing of the Sass-Peepre junior camp. Using the Cranbrook maps again sounds great!

"Barebones" has certainly evolved over the 14 years we've been hosting it.

In the early days it was all about putting on events with the absolute least amount of work, having fun for the organizers (which includes outlawing complaints), and re-discovering old orienteering maps.

By putting on the event year after year we developed a bit of concentrated experience (versus, say the hosts of a rotating event such as the national champs, who get to organize a major event only once every 10 years or so). So, if I do say so, we've become quite handy at putting on events ;-) We know what equipment is available we've got tons of templates and contacts that make the-next-one quick and easy to organize, and a lot of decisions just simply carry forward year to year.

We still have as the number one goal that the organizers enjoy themselves And complaining remains verbotten. But now focus has turned more to trying new ideas and race formats (eg: lots of relays, chase starts, mass starts, etc), club development (new course planners, new officials, new/updated maps).

And we still fall back on the original meaning of "Barebones" to try to keep expectations in check, and hide behind it when things go wrong ;-)

I like how you say that complaining is verbotten, but then you give everyone a participant survey to gather complaints. ;-)

Along with everyone else, I thought the info sheet was phenomenal. I kept it, along with the booklet and warm-up maps from NAOC's. I'll likely be the event director in the near future, so these are ideas that I want to emulate.

Question regarding the Whistler Mountain map... any idea when there will be an event there?

We certainly have lots of maps available if you want to have Barebones in Whitehorse before or after the 9 days of Westerns/COC. Although it will be super cool with new areas and remapped areas that haven't been used in a while, it almost seems wrong that folks won't get to go on Long Lake and War Eagle.

ohhhh I'll miss Long Lake (but not War Eagle, that's for sure!!!)

holy smoke, just looked at the info sheet. impressive

barebones.... think you need to rename