Discussion: West Point Start Times

West Point start times

The A meet main page seems to object to Firefox as the browser...

I noticed the same think, so I looked at the page source and constructed the URL by cutting and pasting:

http://www.dean.usma.edu/geo/clubs/o_team/A%20Meet...

Can someone decode the URL for the timeline? Tried, could not figure it out. Those cadets seem to work with some encryption devices on their web page. I hope they use the regular code on the map.

Why not just click on the link? It beats swallowing mad hatters or kicking 100 pound rocks.

Try this. For some browsers (I use Safari) the links don't work.

Using 'view page source' and searching for the relevant text, then adding the filename in the link to the base url (http://www.dean.usma.edu/geo/clubs/o_team/A%20Meet... ) will work to reconstruct any other links you want.

Right click on the what you think is the link, chose properties, and the URL will show up. Or go to Netscape or IE - the links work there but not in some of the other browers...

But none of that works on my computer. I have to use William's method. The course notes are posted.

A coworker of mine pointed out that the 'schema' for the page is microsoft office, so only internet explorer has a hope of decoding it. Fortunately, the relevant relative URLs may be found in the comments. Someone should get on the cadets' case to not use non-standard web pages.

yeah, those damn cadets and their non-standard web pages. perhaps the problem comes from using "non-standard" browsers like safari and firefox (which have numerous other display deifiencies) as opposed to IE or netscape. then again, maybe the problem comes from the fact that cadets (read "we")don't actually have direct control over the webpage, let alone time enough to do a decent job of maintaining a site ourselves.

As noted above, netscape does not work. Text-based lynx doesn't work either...I've tried at least 4 different browsers myself. Only browsers with a giant "E" in front of them work. Not all of us worship the giant "E." This was pointed out last year. In general, if you want to get information to people you have to make it easily available. If you (or whomever) put strict requirements on which tools can or can't read them - and then don't bother to say which tool that is so people have to guess - then don't expect people to get the information. Simple as that. I've given up...I just send in my check with the standard form, show up in the morning and hope someone hands me a map. Many people I know have stopped going to WP meets for this among other reasons. As far as I can tell the comments on this thread were intended only to help the cadets make this information more accessible and help competitors get to it.

Its no skin off my nose if people stop going to WP meets, but it sure would be a shame if all the work people do to put it on is wasted simply because no one can get any basic information, thats all. Thanks to Valerie for posting the start list here.

Thanks to all those little helpers, swampfoxes and flying badgers, non-standard web rattlers and URL decoders. Peter's links work fine for me. As far as non standard behavior goes, the Internet Explorer which I am using has not been cloned, regrown or in any way modified by some cruel hacker. Well, at least we know the West Point cadets read Attackkpoint too. Once they learn how much influence this powerful consortium (AP) has, they will say 'Yes Sir' and comply with all our gentle requests.

Yes. Sir.
Although not being a cadet, I probably say that wrong.

On a more serious note, to the cadets out there, THANK YOU for your hard work setting up a US A-meet - you've probably got one of the least experienced staffs of any US club, and yet you among a very few Northeast clubs to put out the effort to host an A-meet this Spring.
I certainly hope that you put your remaining time before the event into ensuring controls are in the right place, and ensuring that the maps and codes are printed right. Please don't spend more time working on web page code... until after the event, if at all.

I use Internet Explorer on my Macintosh and it doesn't work for me.

I must say that I have had help in a number of ways from Cadet Andrew Komm (course setter for the A meet) in setting up Saturday afternoon's sprint. He has said, "Yes, sir," and complied with all my requests (some gentle, some urgent) in a friendly way, even though I know he has had a bunch of other stuff to do.

As a public service, I copied and edited the West Point A-meet site here for all you whiners with the oddball web browsers. Hopefully you can read it. I didn't do the course setter's notes because I have to pack and frankly it won't hurt my feelings if the other M40's don't get a chance to read it. :)

IMHO, if the aggrieved people who can't find their start times get in a huff and don't want to go to the meet, that's a shame, but I don't think the cadets should lose any sleep over it. Because if the weather's bad, or the food's bad, they might hear it, too - if the people figure out how to get there.

In most web user cohorts, IE (windows) usage is >80%. Now I know that it is possible to make a largely text based web page that is palatable to virtually every browser, and in an ideal world, they may have done this.

However, I think the cadets' responsibility to do is partially obviated by the characteristics of the <20% who can't see the page. I suspect that these people could use IE, if they chose to, but are technology junkies or anti-Microsoft people, or whatever. Therefore, I expect that >50% of them can (and most should be able to) - get to the main meet page, view source, find the href, and put it in the browser.

I just feel that browser use is largely a personal choice. What the cadets provide satisfies the vast majority of people. To blame the cadets for problems of our own making is poor form.

Apologies to any I offended.

I edited the course setters notes too.

While you're all thinking about the meet at West Point, please feel free to give constructive criticism over the weekend to me or Cadet Ben Shean, I look forward to hearing it and using it to make next year better for you. After the weekend, this thread would be a really good place to post additional comments, or just send me an email at James.Perkins@usma.edu

Hope everyone enjoys the race, see you all there.

Note: FrontPage is evil.

"I suspect that these people could use IE, if they chose to, but are technology junkies or anti-Microsoft people, or whatever."

My Response: Not only does Safari not work, but IE for Mac does not work either.

There MUST be a more appropriate board to post this techno-nonsense, no?

Thanks Jeff, for trying.

Fine - but it still works for well more than 80% of a random sample of web users. (Last I checked, IE had a ~88% market share, and Apple well less than 10%). I know that the people in the minority may feel in the minority – but isn’t this a largely self-selected group? Sharpen your spears for someone besides the cadets.

hmmm. My observation of orienteers from the north east is that they’re a pretty unique bunch (no offense, seriously). Therefore I would think that an ~88% total US market share is not an accurate representation of said orienteers.

Really, no spears here, I just can't pass up an opportunity to diss FrontPage or any other MS proprietary coding BS.

No attack on you :o) just a small voice from a non-compliant techno geek.

Clem, you are right - MS IE holds about 85% of market. But, it's toooooo bad that Microsoft does NOT follow web standards and is a standard for itself ignoring anyone else.

Fortunately, FireFox web browser can show you main page:))

Anyway, it's a technology issue. Please DO NOT blame cadets. Forward you questions to Bill Gates:)) Did I mention I "like" him?!

Thanks - it did occur to me that people who read and post to this board are probably statistically different than my stylized, nationwide statistics. So, you're definitely right - there are bound to be many more squeaky wheels here than elsewhere.

My thing was just that if we are going to provide feedback to the cadets, that it should pertain mostly to Orienteering, and doesn't come across as unduly vituperative before the meet even happens.

If we saw a green course of 9 KM and 400 meters, I'd be much more inclined to complain, perhaps in a tone closer to what has been in evidence here - because 1) that would be a deviation from orienteering standards (not a consequence of our idiosyncratic browser/technology preferences) and 2) it is something they directly control as meet organizers.

For instance, if people don't like the catered dinner - that's OK and there may be grounds to complain - but only insofar as the cadets may have selected the caterer, not because they cooked it themselves. I just personally think the way you phrase criticism should be congruent with the extent and nature of responsibility.

I hope I didn't give the impression that I was at all upset that the web pages weren't standard -- it wasn't such a big deal for me to grab the information I needed from the source. In addition, I would like to echo the thanks given to the cadets -- A-meets I know involve a lot of hard work and I definitely appreciate it. Thanks!

echo "I resent (squeak) being referred to (squeak) as a squeaky (squeak) wheel (squeak)." | gawk '/squeak/{print $0}' > /dev/null

Some oil will take care of that, UNIX boy ;)

I had a chance to read the course notes (I can switch to IE, when I HAVE to...), and I'm looking forward to Sunday. I've neve seen a rattlesnake before!

Secret to be told: The rattlesnakes are the reason why Swampfox escaped to Wyoming so he could tame the attack badgers. Also mapping is easier out there.

The web browser issue is moot: I want to get some information about the A-meet. 99.9% of all web sites I visit work with my set up. I sent an e-mail last year to WP telling them about the issue. Yes, a meet is about the courses and the map. And the race organization. We know that the cadets are struggling to get this meet going, I appreciate their effort and their friendliness and enthusiasm.
It was a good move to bring in Valerie, the timing queen, for the e-punch plus to sprint around the barracks sounds great too. - As a humble foreigner I have to be happy to be admitted to the deep valleys and glorious hills of the West Point reservation, without getting a visa to enter Camp Buckner. Not that the unknown European country where I come from is exactly spying on the U.S., especiallly since orienteering in the small kingdom is fairly advanced.

You probably won't see a rattlesnake this weekend, either. They're pretty shy. I've had plenty of opportunities to see them, or so you'd think, but I've never encountered one outside of a zoo. As far as I can tell, in these parts rattlers are slightly easier to find than ivory-billed woodpeckers.

In today's NY Times - Confirmed sighting of one ivory billed woodpecker in Arkansas swamp - first since 1944!
But don't expect to see one at WP.

In today's NY Times - Confirmed sighting of one ivory billed woodpecker in Arkansas swamp - first since 1944!
But don't expect to see one at WP.

Does anyone know how long the shuttle ride is for day 1? I assume there is one because a drop off point is mentioned but I could not find how much time to allow. We are driving up Sat.
To fit the discussion topics: I used Valerie's link for the start times since it was there -(thanks), but as a sometimes techno-weanie just went to the page source to get the links when I needed the registration forms. I use Firefox.

Allow an hour.

I really hope Valerie's kidding. It's gonna be hard enough for Angelica and I to trade-off watching kids with only 90 minutes between start times without a long ride... I presume West Point doesn't have childcare? (I recall they last tried that in '03 but then they ran into liability rules or something - it sounded like someone got more than just pushups for providing on-the-spot childcare...)

So I should try to leave from Camp Buckner an hour before my start?

Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound official - just threw it out there as the amount of time that I would allow - because I am always way early for everything... Ride is about 20 minutes according to the packet notes.