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Discussion: Take a lesson from baseball

in: Orienteering; General

Aug 4, 2011 8:36 PM # 
gordhun:
Baseball games are sometimes affected by weather. I believe the rule is that if less than half a game has been played when weather (or darkness) halts play then the game is cancelled. However if half or more of the game has been played the game is deemed to have been complete at the end of the last complete inning.
When a timing system such as SI is in use then orienteering could, I believe should, adopt a rule similar to baseball's. If a course is affected by a missing or misplaced control more than half way through the course then the course should be deemed to be complete at the point of the last properly placed control.
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Aug 4, 2011 8:47 PM # 
GlenT:
Been discussed, been decided....

IOF Rule 24.15 The results must be based on competitors’ times for the whole course. No changes may be made to these times on the basis of split times.

OUSA Rule 17.6.1 If electronic punching is utilized the jury is specifically prohibited from trying to salvage a problem course by deleting the times of the affected legs from the total elapsed time of that course.

Need to check COF. Edit - COF Rules do not seem to specifically address this point.
Aug 4, 2011 9:11 PM # 
JanetT:
Cutting off a course at a missing/misplaced control just lets organizers off the hook; this would not be fair to the disadvantaged competitors.
Aug 4, 2011 9:31 PM # 
Pink Socks:
Cutting off a course at a missing/misplaced control just lets organizers off the hook.

Agreed. But which sentiment is greater? The desire of competitors to have a valid result, or the desire to not let the organizers off easy?

This would not be fair to the disadvantaged competitors.

It would certainly be more fair than the "throw only the affected splits out" option. By ending the course before the competitors know that there's an issue, that should make it fair. It only becomes unfair when early competitors, aware of an issue, communicate that information to later starters, who then pace themselves faster because the race is now shorter.

One could argue that the baseball rule is unfair. If you have a team with a sketchy starter, but a solid bullpen/closer, you'd prefer the game to go longer against a team with an ace starter but with a weaker pen.
Aug 4, 2011 10:11 PM # 
Spike:
Orienteering organizers have a lot more control over control placement than a baseball team has over the weather.
Aug 5, 2011 12:31 AM # 
gordhun:
What the heck is this about letting the organizer off the hook? What sanctions are there for a misplaced control? A few days of venting on AP? Yes.
Is there a fine? Is there a requirement to refund fees? No and no.
If the world could not rethink rules that had already been discussed and decided burning at the stake and similar common practices of the past would still be commonplace.
"It has to be so because the IOF says so"
Sorry but the IOF is not and never has been particularly innovative. All the great innovations and new ideas in orienteering have come from member federations or more likely from individuals and clubs within those federations.
USOF and COF should put the rule in place on a trial basis. What have you got to lose? Hopefully it will never have to be invoked but its a solid fallback.
Aug 5, 2011 12:49 AM # 
Tundra/Desert:
No, it has to be so because many members of many member federations met many times, discussed this over many times, and all, without exception, came to the same conclusion. There are much better things to do than rethinking conclusions that many people already gave a lot of thought to. (These things are called promotion.) Reinventing the wheel and ignorance of international tradition has always been a particularly strong aspect of North American orienteering, and there's nothing to be proud of; makes for inefficient use of volunteer time.
Aug 5, 2011 2:59 AM # 
O-ing:
Harsh, considering Gord's long international experience. Its actually not a bad idea, but there are still too many grey areas. It obviously doesn't help if the issue is early in the course. Then there is the issue of what is "misplaced" - some "misplacements" may be acceptable, some clearly aren't. And what matters most is the perception of the competitors when they come to a "misplaced" control; its going to vary depending which way they go in. So some will stop thinking that the new rule will apply, some won't.
Interestingly, orienteers are a pretty resilient lot and many will keep going anyway. Here's a recent example from a national championship, where no. 3 was misplaced and every compeitor continued on to finish the long course, even including the guy who ran back to the finish to alert the organisers!
Aug 5, 2011 4:30 AM # 
tRicky:
If it rains on an orienteer and there is no control around, does he still get wet?
Aug 5, 2011 4:41 PM # 
bubo:
Is there a fine? Is there a requirement to refund fees?

As far as I know the rule - or at least the norm - in Sweden is to refund entry fees for all those affected by a voided course. This is maybe not "punishment" enough (if that is something we want) for the organizers as would be a "fine" but at least a decent thing to do.

This discussion thread is closed.