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What is odd about the reaction is that there will have already been a race for everyone earlier in the day. Support the elites and watch them race. I've been doing that a fair bit recently by skipping the sprint races. It is quite enjoyable.

And the CSU connection? Just a bizarro comment.

I really hope that it moves up to 3 teams per country per category for the next NAOC because it would really force Canada to fill some teams.

Why I like 3 (I posted to the main thread) is that it just won't be the same WOC and JWOC team. I don't think it will anyways when you see people like Katta and BMay winning races against the elite but I have always argued that the NAOC should be treated as a pre-WOC for our athletes where we race for our country (and not for our club). I really like the idea of a race just for the very best though. I think O in North America has suffered by trying to be everything to everyone at ALL races.

Do we need to add a face-palm for Louise?

i'm afraid so

Well, its true that there's no guarantee of attendance from anyone. Theoretically, it the Park World Tour in China happens again next year and it occurs at the same time as it did last year, I might not even be there. Though I would say odds are there would be enough people to field teams, and until a mixed relay is relevant in the world stage, there's no point in doing one domestically.

My comment would be that it's not DVOA's job to ensure that Canada has 6 elite women to travel to the regional champs. That would be COF's job and there's a year to prepare for it.

Let me first say that I'm very supportive of this concept. I'm not the least worried about the fact the relay is only for the elites. I think a vast majority will hang around and watch this race.

I am a bit worried about filling the teams with relevant runners though. Sure, having this relay itself will raise the profile and increase probability that athletes will attend, but the reality is that many of our top runners have very limited money and/or time, especially on the junior side. How many of our Yukon/BC/Alberta juniors will be able to afford to go to the NAOCs? Far from all HPP members even attend the COCs... Does it matter if the BK Cup relay runners are HPP members? It's probably ok as long as they are at least athletes (e.g. Katta), but what happens if you have to use obvious "fillers". Will the race still be relevant and exciting?

Senior Men - No problem, even if we miss one or two of our top athletes we'll have 6 very strong runners.

Senior Women - We only have two HPP athletes in this category... yeah, I know we have some good runners who are not HPP and I guess they can borrow team uniforms for the race. We will fill two teams of course, but will the 5th and 6th runner actually be a W21E runner or will we have to use Marion Owen or something like that?

Junior Men - After a wave of strong guys have just gone through the system, we now have a bit of a gap. Alex B and Trevor B look promising, but then it gets thin. Would we actually be able to fill 6 spots. It will be borderline. Unlikely that all of them would be HPP.

Junior Women - Is in a stronger phase than the boys at the moment. If the entire Yukon/West Coast group make the trip we'll be ok. Otherwise it will be thin or borderline.

Well really, the only people who should be worried are the Senior and Junior Team Coaches ;) And yes, they should be worried. But, DVOA has laid down the gautlet and the US shouldn't go easy on Canada just because we only have 2 senior ladies in the HPP.

I think the Canadian teams should be the top 6 runners regardless of whether they are in the HPP or not, same as WOC.

Pi,
For the record I'm supportive of the new rules. When I was racing I made the NAOC my number one priority and won three of them and was 23 seconds away from winning 5 in a row (a decade). I think we should encourage our athletes to attend this race every two years. For some it is a stepping stone to WOC. To others it is a step down from WOC but still a great opportunity to showcase our athletes to the public and to sponsors. If the top runners can't race then I don't have a problem filling in spots with other athletes. The 'not good enough' attitude that COF took in the 80's and early 90's was not a good approach (i.e, only sending 1 woman to the World Cup race in Alberta when we could have sent 6). Fortunately we have wiser people running our HPP today than back then.

And besides today's "filler" may just well be tomorrow's National Champion.

e.g., GHO took a bunch of guys to the 2005 US sprint series finals. We brought along one guy that wasn't good enough for the final 16 in the A finals of the sprint. he had to run the B final. He was perhaps "filler". He won the "B" final. He then got better and joined the HPP. Three years later he made the sprint "A" final at WOC. His name was Patrick Goeres.

For the record I'm still pissed at the fact that they stuck Patrick in the same heat that I was in.

Also, for the record, I want pi on my relay team.

If we don't have enough depth to send two strong teams we have two options: use fillers to make a second team or don't send a second team and forfeit the chance at those extra BK cup points. What we can't do is complain and make it DVOA's problem.

As I understand it, it's not DVOA who "threw down the gauntlet", it was the joint OUSA/COF BK Cup committee. And they should not (and did not) base the format on the number of senior women currently in the COF HPP.

I'm not sure if there is a misunderstanding, but I also support the format. Of course the HPC and its coaches will encourage our athletes to attend. Of course we will be inclusive in the team selection. I agree that it should not be mandatory to be a HPP members (but we do have to prepare and bring extra team suits for those who are not, which could be almost all runners for the senior women).

Nevertheless, I share Louise's concerns to fill a 6 deep roster in all 4 categories with relevant runners. By fillers I mostly mean M/W45 and older, or perhaps juniors who are beginners or non-competitive that we will "force" to take part just to fill out the team. I'm pretty sure Patrick was not in this category back in 05. ;) Eventually I hope we will build our programs and have no problems fielding great teams and that we could increase to 3 teams per category (or even more).

I want this very first relay to very cool, relevant and successful with our best runners. I'm a little nervous that despite our best efforts we will have to use some fillers (or fail to fill some teams all together) and that will detract from the success. That's all I'm saying.

Whose complaining Jeff?

Will, I'd love to be on a relay team with you (like Jukola!), but I'm not eligible for the BK Cup (and not fast enough for a sprint relay.

Pi, you're totally right about the throwing of said gauntlet.

On the same page with the rest of your post.

Sorry Mike, that was just misplaced frustration.