Discussion: Lighting up the night rogaine

Can one run a good night rogaine w/ an ordinary headlamp? Or is it neccesary to buy one of those $500-1000 bike/HID lights to really do well? I was imagining running without light at all, but it would make it hard to read the map, I suppose.
What are your experiences?

My opinion? There are headlamps out there for under $100 that are good for 95% of what you'll want to do at a Rogaine. Once in a while it's helpful (but not essential) to have some serious firepower for a minute or two, and that can be done with a hand-held flashlight.

My Hatlamp is something I consider to be ideal for a Rogaine: a high-power LED that will run all night on one set of batteries, and a 20W halogen narrow spot that I can run for about a minute at a time before it tries to set my hair on fire. The whole thing is homemade, and I spent only about $20.

Plenty of people do Rogaines with ordinary headlamps (and I don't mean orienteering headlamps). The only thing that I'd be reluctant to use is something with just three little LEDs. I've done several Rogaines with just a 2xAA mini maglite, but I wouldn't want to go back to that.

i would recommend the princeton tech eos. great light three different settings lasting 40, 8, and 2 hrs. I generally use the middle setting and then the high only for technical downhill running. it runs on 3 triple A batteries so i bring a backup set.

Won the 2005 NA Rogaines wearing only the standard LED crappola thing. Was planning to be back in order to swap out for night gear, but didn't work out that way.

I'd wear something brighter if someone gave me one, but likely wouldn't bother to upgrade otherwise.

i'm inspired by the answers so far, in that i would much rather be low tek in that situation.(and hundreds of dollars richer) but a little surprised too. I could see bright light helping in closing on the control, avoiding deadfall and other snags while running. But a good moon would do wonders to illuminate earth forms, etc. and you might see more of certain things without brights.

urthbuoy, what were the light conditions in the event you won? wait a second, it wasn't one of those above the arctic circle deals was it:)

Moon doesn't work under the trees. Moon doesn't show barbed-wire fences, either, and I have the scar on my thigh to prove it.

If you're going to do a lot of night stuff, an HID is nice and probably worth the cash. However, a 3-watt LED is just about as good and can be had for around $70. Like JJ, I don't think the 1-watt LED (even with multiple bulbs) cuts it. Halogens also work if you've got one, but if you're buying something, go LED and get the extra battery life.

I seem to have good night vision in general so that may help me. The Rogaine I did was a mix of open grasslands and "not so dense" forest, but I can't recall the moon status. I race a lot throughout the night in AR though and can't find myself outrunning my ability to see with a bright LED. Basically, the lighting doesn't slow me down unless I'm in mountainous terrain (ie not a Rogaine I know of). A brighter light would help you to spot distant features, but the process in doing so, is usually quite a time delay vs. staying in touch with the map and moving on the terrain you're immediately on. But this works for me, and I still wouldn't say no if someone handed over an HID to me.

For me, the brighter lights come in to play during faster biking and sometimes during paddling due to the difficulty in locating yourself with the shoreline.

I wouldn't use an HID because of the weight and burn time. I have a $250 NR that lasts 4hrs. It is great on fast technical bike sections but would be useless for a foot rogaine. I don't think it really helps identifying large distant features. The light I mentioned above cost about $35. I use it for everything on foot and the variable settings are great. lower sections for climbing/walking and brighter for downhill running. i have even used the light on technical mtn bike rides in a pinch.

I use a Princeton Tec Apex 3W LED most of the time while rogaining, often using a medium setting. But I do carry a NiteRider HID in a chest pocket for those times when a seriously bright light is helpful, e.g. when looking for a reflective control placed somewhere on a large feature. It's also great for seeing the shape of a re-entrant, the direction a trail is going to take way up ahead, the steepness of a hillside, etc. The HID only lasts 4 hrs, but I have yet to come close to using up its battery in any overnight race, since I only turn it on when I'm at a point where I think the extra light will help. True, it's a bit on the heavy side, but I'm convinced that it saves me more time than I would have gained by carrying a lighter pack.

I've found that 2 lith-ion batteries get through the night with my HID. That brings the total weight to about 2.5 pounds. Small price to pay for exceptional visibility. Now, the actual price is another matter; HID's aren't cheap. However, I can't think of any other piece of equipment that returns so much performance on the dollar. Closest would be my carbon fiber paddle. That's worth maybe 10 minutes over a 4-hour paddle and a few more if you have to carry the paddle any distance in your pack. A single nighttime boom can set you back much more than that.

Local terrain has a lot to do with the usefulness. I do most of my night racing in MO, AR, and IN where we have few open fields, but the woods are very high visibility. An HID can light up a whole hillside making contour detail easy to read. I've used it in denser woods and found that all it does is make the leaves right in front of you very bright. I think an LED would actually be preferrable in thick stuff.

Several folks have commented that they see the HID as more of a bike light. I like it on the bike fine, but when I have to choose, I use the LED on the bike and HID on foot. Bike controls are typically right on the trail, so the nav doesn't require reading the terrain as accurately. I can see the trail just fine with the 3W LED. As mentioned above, the HID is really nice for paddling because you can see shore detail from a long way off.

The 20W high-beam on my hatlamp compared favorably with a HID light in a side-by-side test a couple of years ago. I don't remember which HID it was. But mine weighs and cost almost nothing. I need to put together a web page about how to build one.

Eric is right about terrain making a difference. I was motivated to build something brighter than my Petzl Duo after the 2005 WRC in Arizona, when I had one moment during the night when I wanted to see what the far side of a gorge looked like in order to decide where to cross, and I just didn't have enough brightness. But in contrast, when Charlie borrowed the hatlamp at Pawtuckaway last fall, he never had a desire to switch on the high beam.

The 20W high-beam on my hatlamp compared favorably with a HID light in a side-by-side test a couple of years ago.

I don't doubt it if you're looking at max distance; It's easier to focus a halogen. Where the HID excels is when you just want to throw a bunch of light over a large area to line up a bunch of features. You can do that with a focused halogen by panning, but it's not quite as easy.

I do about 100 hours of night activity per year and I've had my HID for three years with the only repair being a bulb replacement. It's not really that expensive given my usage.

I love my headlamp. Night orienteering and night running was not something I was excited about when I moved to Sweden. But with a real headlamp it's not bad and it's obviously an important part of doing any winter training. I would certainly think it would be a disadvantage to do a race with anything less. I don't know exactly what I have...it's whatever the typical headlamp is that all Swedish orienteers have.

I've struggled with night rogaines using either the older headlamp or the small LED ones. The LED is better for reading the map and the older light is better for reading the ground. If there's no moon and you are trying to run in a forest, you're going to struggle unless you have a decent light. You need to keep your navigation as simple as possible, because contours in the dark are really hard to see.

You need to get a good LED. the new ones work great for running. they are not like the Tikkas of old which were one step away from useless

Check out the Princeton Tec Apex for a next generation LED.

That's precisely the light that Charlie bought recently, on my recommendation. I don't know whether he's had a chance to try it out much yet, but I'll be seeing him this weekend and will try to come back with a firsthand field report.

'Bent and I have used our Apexes a lot over the past year, as have several adventure racing friends. My only complaint about it is not relevant to orienteering (at least, I don't think so). The plastic clips holding on the elastic headband straps have been designed with open edges for easy removal of the straps. If you try to pull the headlamp on over a helmet, the straps tend to pull off, and there isn't quite enough wire length between battery and light to fit on my helmet - although 'Bent has been able to make it work on his.

This wasn't a problem with the Petzl Myo5, which was my previous favourite headlamp until the Apex came along. We switched because the Myo5's bright light (possibly brighter than the Apex at full battery power) is halogen, so the batteries don't last as long, plus it's water resistant rather than waterproof like the Apex. I still use the Myo5 for a bike helmet light, unless I'm going out for a short enough ride that a NiteRider Storm HID will last, i.e. less than 4 hrs.

I am just happy to get to run at night with a light - the Army kind of frowns on them! Something Jen Knowles and I have found handy is not just having a good headlamp, but also having a second longer-range light (hand-carried) for the inevitable searching when you are in the circle...but not usually something we have on when running unless it is really nasty terrain.

I do think whatever you choose, being comfortable with your equipment at night is often more important than having the best technology out there. It was a great surprise to me to see how many orienteers were not fond of or comfortable with nighttime events and the subsequent impact on their nighttime per km times. Good motivation to get out there for those training runs in hours of darkness!

Yes, at least if you are the middle of the pack or now the back of the pack with three children under 7 years as I am now- they come too.

In 1989 when I started my wife and I used a small red light to read the map. I have not bothered with that for ten plus years. It worked I just prefer to keep things simple.

I have used various Petzels of the last 17 years though none with LEDs. Seems to be enough.

I know some who as cmpbllv has written use a large hand torch to find the flag. On a well designed, set, vetted and hung course the flags should be visisble from 25 to 50 metres not always achievable.

If following a bearing, moon or even no moon, behind my team mate/wife/common life style partner I love turning of my head lamp. Once my eyes adjust, usually quickly it is one of the high lights of any rogaine to navigate by moon light whilst checking the map occassionally.

Your field of veiw expands so much with out the light beam on.

Must get out there again!

I once actually dropped a mega Petzel off my head in the hour before day light and did not notice. A following team were a little dumbfounded when they found it on still. More os when I retrieved it from them and said I had not noticed dropping it. I had probably pointed it up into the sky rather than turn it off.

It is worth considering that the speed across the ground in a rogaine is slow. 5 kilometres an hour is afterall 120 kilometres in 24 hours, few if any rogainers have approached that distance in a rogaine.

What is the speed of elite orienteers in night o's? If there is such a thing as an elite night o!

There is definitely elite night-O. Speeds are sometimes not very much slower than in the daylight, depending on the terrain.

I've been using the Princeton Tec Apex since Santa brought it two Christmases ago, mostly for rogaines, but some night-Os as well. I like it a lot. Reasonable cost (about $70), and of the 4 light settings (not counting the flashing mode), I find 3 of them quite useful. I like the low power LED for map reading and some running conditions, high power LED for most running conditions, and the 3 watt focused beam (highest energy consumption) for looking for the reflector when getting close to the control. Usually can get through an entire night on one set of 4 AA alkaline batteries. I also like the design, with the buttons for changing light settings convenient and easy to use, even with gloves on.

Okay, I tried out the Princeton Tec Apex last night, and I found it quite favorable. When Charlie was in the market for a new light last fall I did some research, and this what what I came up with for a recommendation, although I don't remember any details other than that there were a few similar headlamps from other manufacturers that also looked like they would be reasonable choices. I'd say this light would be quite fine for almost all activities involving night travel on foot. The only thing I wasn't pleased with was the strap setup, but I was wearing this over a warm hat, and didn't fiddle with the straps much. I suspect that I could get it to fit well if I put a little time into adjusting it. I haven't done a side-by-side comparison with my hatlamp yet, but this product is certainly in the same league.

It is worth considering that the speed across the ground in a rogaine is slow. 5 kilometres an hour is afterall 120 kilometres in 24 hours, few if any rogainers have approached that distance in a rogaine.

True, but I think you use a lot more around/safe routes in rogaines. I typically cover between 90-110K red line in a rogaine, but actual distance traveled is much greater. As for true night-O, I find my speed is not much different than day. The penalty for error is certainly higher so I take safer routes, but I find it easier to stay in contact if I'm covering ground at my usual pace.

well, having done the rogaine, i would have to say the Princeton Tec is ok (though I think I got a defective model with a lot of hairline cracks around the fastener mounts)...

but if the terrain is rugged or demanding, the much brighter bike light I took along ('cheapo' model w/ only 2 hours burn time) made it much easier to run faster, look ahead a few yards and select a terrain running route that avoided the treefall, clump of brambles or heavily rutted mud pit.

It did feel more invasive though - after all why run a night rogaine if you rely on ever more powerful technology, which (carrying the thought to its extreme extension) turns the night more and more into day?

I don't think you have to worry about that anytime soon. I've got a 2,000,000 candlepower floodlight that does a great job of lighting up a campsite, but still isn't anything like "day". The 20w restriction will keep night-O reasonably dark even if someone finds a way to convert 100% that power to light.

My guess is that technology will kill the sport sooner or later, but not because of vision issues. Implanted GPS devices are probably only a decade away and it wouldn't be too tough to combine that with data off the optic nerve to sync with any map just by looking at it and knowing where you are at two different points. From there it's just a matter of writing some decent routing routines and finding a way to send the answer back to your brain (my first try would be to put it back on the optic nerve, but it's not my area of expertise. Anyway, I'd say we've got at least 15 years, maybe 20, and by then I'll be older than PG!

You'll never be older than PG.

From the South Australian Rogaining Newsletter about why you should be prepared------------------"World Champs October 2006 Warrumbungle’s NSW
The “Energy Saver Award” – PAUL HOOPMAN
This team decided to do a five or 6 hour day loop on the first day without their packs to conserve energy. Their plan was to return
before dark and collect their packs that contained their head torches and continue on. In theory, this was a great plan. However, due
to the thick scrub and steep terrain, their 5 or 6 hour loop turned into 11! With no moon, they struggled for 5 hours in pitch-black
darkness with only a small LED light on a key ring to see with. The switch on this light had to be squeezed very hard and held in,
to make it work. After 5 hours of this, they had lost almost all feeling in their fingers. Despite their disappointment at
losing so much time they still finished a credible 3rd in the supevets and 33rd overall.
THANK YOU
The nominations for these Lunartic Awards generally come from stories that others have told. Thanks to all who provided the
nominations for the 2006 Awards."

No torch, no worries. Bumble through the forest on a bearing counting your steps until you think you are near the control. Then pull out your box of matches, ignite a match - and voila! You should be able to spot the control a metre or two away. If not, work on that nav...

Gary Thompson & I ran into the same problem at US 24-hour champs in 2002. We took longer than expected getting through the ravines and wound up several K from the hash as the sun was setting. There was a road nearby, so we weren't stuck in the woods, but getting back on it added quite a bit of distance and cut off a couple controls. Since then, I've always carried my lights the whole time - they don't weigh that much.

In last year's North American Rogaining Champs in Allegany State Park, experienced supervets Eric & Mary Smith stashed their packs near a trail junction while they went to get an out-and-back control. I don't remember seeing any non-rogainers in the woods over the 24 hours, yet when the Smiths returned to the junction a short time later, their packs were gone - including their lights. I didn't hear any tales of an epic journey, so I assume that they made it back to the hash house before darkness fell.

There were several people on horseback passing through the area right before Eric and Mary were spotted searching for their packs. Some of the horse people behaved quite obnoxiously.

Having something really bright doesn't help light up around you much re: avoiding hurting yourself - you can see fine with a cheapo light. The extra power is only really useful for control spotting if you don't spike it - so I'd say work on the navigation first.

If your light is really bright and you forget to switch modes before checking your map you can really blind yourself pretty well :)

I'd never start a rogaine without a light (unless doing only the morning section of an upside down (all night 8pm - 8am) race and I was just gonna run the 3 hours flat out.