Discussion: Australian Selection Policy

It was good to see the discussion on Blair's Log about selection. For those that missed it. http://www.attackpoint.org/discussionthread.jsp/me... I also was just reading about the British selections for the Nordics and WC and noticed that it says that WC spots are unfunded. I was just wondering what peoples thoughts are on perhaps having a much more relaxed selection of WC spots and promoting that as a development pathway, basically allowing anyone (to a certain extent) who runs elites in Aus, to go to WC races self-funded. Given the new structure of the WC, largely centred around June-July and the major events like oringen for the next few years, it would allow some promising juniors and some younger senior elites a good trip in uni holidays, and something to train for. Maybe even OA could fund the bare minimum like entry fees. What do yah aussies and others think?

WC is the perfect way to gain experience and exposure to world class competition. It would be great to have as many and any aussies running these races although they should be 100% self funded.

WOC is the main event and if the AUS WOC team can't cover all its costs then OA definetly do not have enough for WC.

Where did you read about the GB selection?

Interesting suggestion. As I understand it part of the aim of the new world cup was to get rid of the also rans who finish in embarrassingly slow times. At least that was the sort reasoning given by some in the IOF foot O committee. Hence the push to limit the numbers from the smaller countries. It would be ironic if the effect was the opposite.

British selections, as posted on the britishorienteering.co.uk website:

Senior Selections Announced
The following athletes have been selected. Nordic Championships, Denmark, ...
The following athletes have been selected.

Nordic Championships, Denmark, 2nd – 6th May.

Jon Duncan, Scott Fraser, Graham Gristwood and Jamie Stevenson.

Helen Bridle, Rachael Elder, Pippa Whitehouse and Helen Winskill.

Scott and Rachael are the reserves for the relay team.

Ukraine training camp, 29th May – 3rd June.

David Brickhill-Jones, Jon Duncan, Scott Fraser, Graham Gristwood, Oli Johnson, Matt Speake and Jamie Stevenson.

Helen Bridle, Rachael Elder, Jenny Johnson, Pippa Whitehouse and Helen Winskill.

World Cup Race in Finland, self funding, 14th June.

David Brickhill-Jones, Jon Duncan, Scott Fraser, Graham Gristwood, Oli Johnson, Neil Northrop, Matt Speake, Jamie Stevenson and Murray Strain.

Lizzie Adams, Aislinn Austin, Becky Carlyle, Rachael Elder, Karen Heppenstall, Jenny Johnson, Helen Palmer, Jo Stevenson and Pippa Whitehouse.

World Cup Race in Norway, self funding, 22nd June.

Duncan Archer, David Brickhill-Jones, Oleg Chepelin, Jon Duncan, Oli Johnson, Ewan McCarthy, Neil Northrop, Jamie Stevenson and Murray Strain.

Lizzie Adams, Becky Carlyle, Laura Daniel, Rachael Elder, Karen Heppenstall, Helen Palmer and Pippa Whitehouse, 2 further athletes to be added subject to availability.

All athletes are asked to confirm their availability by email to Hilary Bloor as soon as possible,click here

Derek Allison, Chairman Senior Selectors.

good idea
i think there should be a selection policy though (more relaxed though simillar to bushrangers). otherwise it runs the risk of becoming a social event rather something to train for.

disagree with troy though. i think if OA footed entry fees for its selected participants it would keep those participants accountable to achieving the best result for their country which they could. I think for a small amount of money it would go a long way to developing and encouraging elites to achieve their potential. people will be more likely to perform and develope as elites if they get treated like them, and it really wouldnt be a great deal of money.

The idea is to give everyone a go at running at a big event through WC. OA will be giving you the priceless opportunity to represent AUS at WC, that should be enough. You must pay your own way to gain this experience, otherwise you would be taking away limited funding from the AUS WOC team.

IF you were to go on and make a AUS WOC team you would then be funded as you would be contributing to AUS WOC team and OA objectives.

Yes. I agree its good value for money, but what about all the money OA would be throwing away funding entries to athletes who will never make a WOC team or have no intention.

In other news, I reckon IOF should charter a flight from race 1 to race 2! The whole thing is a logistical nightmare.

Robplow: As I understand it part of the aim of the new world cup was to get rid of the also rans who finish in embarrassingly slow times.

I hope you weren't implying any of us Brits will be in that category!?

I guess it's just a choice where British Orienteering and other federations are concerned as to how they spend the small amount of money they've got.

Troy, did you have to work at making that sound as supercilious as possible, or did it just come out that way? I'm not saying I disagree with you, but it didn't exactly come across well the way you put it there.

JennyJ, I think the IOF had in mind US, Canadian, South African, Irish orienteers, and the like when the plan to cut the number of participants ("also-rans") from some countries was first hatched. It certainly wasn't GBR!

WC entries arent cheap, I remember paying around 500aud to run some a few years back, it may be cheaper now with the new streamlined WC.
Top point Blair made about the depth of elite orienteering in australia and the carrot of WC in non WOC years creating this. With WOC every year the focus has been taken off everything other than WOC even though there are still big races that anyone can run in europe.
Blair suggested that the strength of the team around 2001 made WOC seem an unrealistic goal but plenty of people have broken into this, BJ, Jules, Hanny just to name a few. It just goes to show that if you have the passion and commitment (and talent in those cases) it is possible.

Jenny
I wasn't suggesting that at all.But one of the comments from the Foot O committee during the debate on this was about getting rid of those embarrassing runners who finish so far behind.

I would imagine that the consequence of not funding WC places might sometimes result in some of the best Brits not going to some WC's - especially if they are further away - eg. outside Europe - though there is not much danger of that in the near future. Though now that I have seen the teams selected that obviously isn't happening ....yet.

And Troy's suggestion of using WC as a way for younger runners to gain experience would not make the person who made the above comment happy.

I don't have any objection to Troy's idea long as there is some control . It's not a good look when a bunch of curious Australian O tourists decide to have a go at a world cup and end up filling up the bottom of the results list. There still needs to be a selection procedure that ensures those that do enter world cups at least have the potential to devlelop.

I think that the IOF are trying to develop the World Cup as an elite individual competition vs. WOC which has something of a team focus. Using it as a training event will likely just encourage them to do away with National Selection criteria altogether and base World Cup eligibility on an individual's World Raking. If all participants came from only 10 (or so) countries, I don't think that would necessarily be a problem for them.

The reality is that if countries want to continue to have representation in the World Cup we need to ensure that we need to send our best athletes to compete in the races, and I mean all the races, not picking different people for different races. (I have no idea how this could be done).

Jesus! did u do a degree in "big words to impress on AP" Feet? ;)

supercilious=having or showing arrogant superiority (according to google)

No intention, sorry

Just being realistic with the very small pot of funds we have available. In an ideal world we would have a bigger pot and maybe even a porno tree.

arent you happy with the porno bush de haas?

No. Maybe a bush was all they needed during WOC in the 80's, but now we demand trees.

The problem with putting money into World Cups is that the number of them is such that even paying entry fees for a decent team adds up quickly. In the 1990s, covering entry fees only (without anything for travel) we were spending something like $15-20K per year, and that money has to come from somewhere. That's with self-managed teams too - which is fine when things are going smoothly, but doesn't work so well when it's a middle distance day with a heat and a final on one day, there's a protest to sort out between the races which is going to determine whether one of your runners is starting first in the A final or last in the B, and you're staying 3k from the event centre with no transport other than directly to/from the events....

Also good to see that some people of a scientific mind also have a strong command of the English language. Having just proofread 80 pages worth of journal I can assure you that many of them don't....

You're lucky that feet didn't sass you out in Latin, Troy. :-)

Age, catamite - fac mihi hunc diem felicissimum!

Which translates to: "Pensioner is old and he has mild hunger cravings for his mum's felicissi with vegemite"

(getting wildly off-topic) I don't think I've seen an advertisement as good as this in the sporting sphere for Canberra Grammar's English department since the episode a few years back when Rod Kafer (former Australian rugby player) started quoting from 'Animal Farm' in a media interview about a dispute with the Australian Rugby Union which he was in at the time.

Bruce, I'm afraid I'll have to give you an E for your Latin this term.

No wonder Pensioner's FOOL team is performing so badly if loitering on AP writing off-topic nonsense is considered a substitute for actual training/team management. I want to see more effort from all Victorians as I need to keep the Palmer Trophy on my desk (it is an excellent paperweight and impresses my clients no end).

and judging by the book of smartarse latin phrases sitting next to our keyboard i would say that pensioners grasp of latin is not good enough to justify his smug comment to bruce,

I did do 4 years of Latin. I only failed two of them. Ancient Greek was the real problem. Gave up after one year. Hats off to Will Hawkins for surviving to graduate both.

I knew I would regret that turn of phrase. But it's just the right word to use...