Discussion: US Relay Champs
in: Orienteering; General
Jul 27, 2005 5:42 AM
#
In a little over a week, the US Relay Champs will return to Colorado, and will take place at the site used for more relay races than any other site in North America: the infamous Corral at Lake George, which sits in the shadow of the imposing, mighty, Quartz Hill massif, upon which so many oxygen bottles of climbing expeditions are strewn, like so many discarded Budweiser beer cans at a NASCAR track after a race.
The early betting has picked SVO as the favorites and indeed they are expected to crush the opposition by an hour or more, with a presumed line-up of Mihai "goodbye" Veres, Eddy "Big Eddy" Bergeron, Mark "break a leg or two" Voit, and their secret weapon, Brad Whitmore. Exploiting carefully researched loopholes in the USOF Rules of Competition for Relay, Brad will be mounted on one of his Alpacas, as the rules do not expressly forbid the use of the Alpaca, as long as it is homegrown (of course the gentle reader will be aware that Brad has his own Alpaca barn and entire breeding operation). Alpaca are not normally noted for their speed, but they will spit when irritated, and in steep, hilly, rocky terrain such as at Lake George, they are faster than Prince himself speeding down US 24 on a purple motorcycle, and all Brad has to do is ride and try to steer. Even the most recalcitrant alpacas will eventually do what they are told and race with some real heart once you threaten to turn them into a sweater.
Canadians do not drift down as far south as Colorado except in singles and twosies and threesies, and never as an entire racing club, so they will not be a factor for second or any other place. Oh, Canada, in this coming hour of relay need, where art thou maple leaves and divine sweet syrups???
Instead, BAOC will likely be a lock for second. BAOC almost never gets any of their best runners together for a single race, but they operate much like the Chinese do, overwhelming the opposition with sheer billions of club members, with at least a few good enough for second place.
Third is perhaps going to end up in the hands of Orienteer Kansas. Freed of the submarining Snorkel, the first 3 OKers will at last not dig themselves so deep in the hole that Mark "Mook" Everett won't be able to unleash a savage race, sufficiently inspired by the lack of deadly cactus, wasps on the wing, killer bees, biting ants, rattlesnakes, Minutemen border vigilante militia, and 3 digit temperatures that he daily faces in his training runs around Tucson, to drum out a running cadence good enough for Bronze. Besides, as an astronomer, Mook knows how to use the Theory of Relativity to his advantage, and when you know that, no deficit is too deep.
DVOA really should finish in the medals, but team leader Clem "the power" McGrath will pack all his sentences of key instructions with so many polysyllabic words that the DVOA team members will make the perfectly understandable assumption that they were being addressed in Finnish or maybe even Urdu, and they will still be thumbing their dictionaries in hope of a translation while first leg runners from other clubs are tagging off their second leg runners, and then it will be too late for even DVOA, "the BAOC of the East, but without the Poison Oak", as they like to style themselves.
Of course, additional last minute entries, in the form of key runners from other clubs, could hugely change the pre-race guessing. In particular it is interesting to speculate what Cambridge Sports Union might do, but for the moment they must be in a state of indescribable shock at today's announcement of the withdrawal of several other very large unions from the AFL-CIO, and are probably too numb for the moment to even drink coffee and scarf donuts or engage in various time honored schemes of corruption like good union members should.
The early betting has picked SVO as the favorites and indeed they are expected to crush the opposition by an hour or more, with a presumed line-up of Mihai "goodbye" Veres, Eddy "Big Eddy" Bergeron, Mark "break a leg or two" Voit, and their secret weapon, Brad Whitmore. Exploiting carefully researched loopholes in the USOF Rules of Competition for Relay, Brad will be mounted on one of his Alpacas, as the rules do not expressly forbid the use of the Alpaca, as long as it is homegrown (of course the gentle reader will be aware that Brad has his own Alpaca barn and entire breeding operation). Alpaca are not normally noted for their speed, but they will spit when irritated, and in steep, hilly, rocky terrain such as at Lake George, they are faster than Prince himself speeding down US 24 on a purple motorcycle, and all Brad has to do is ride and try to steer. Even the most recalcitrant alpacas will eventually do what they are told and race with some real heart once you threaten to turn them into a sweater.
Canadians do not drift down as far south as Colorado except in singles and twosies and threesies, and never as an entire racing club, so they will not be a factor for second or any other place. Oh, Canada, in this coming hour of relay need, where art thou maple leaves and divine sweet syrups???
Instead, BAOC will likely be a lock for second. BAOC almost never gets any of their best runners together for a single race, but they operate much like the Chinese do, overwhelming the opposition with sheer billions of club members, with at least a few good enough for second place.
Third is perhaps going to end up in the hands of Orienteer Kansas. Freed of the submarining Snorkel, the first 3 OKers will at last not dig themselves so deep in the hole that Mark "Mook" Everett won't be able to unleash a savage race, sufficiently inspired by the lack of deadly cactus, wasps on the wing, killer bees, biting ants, rattlesnakes, Minutemen border vigilante militia, and 3 digit temperatures that he daily faces in his training runs around Tucson, to drum out a running cadence good enough for Bronze. Besides, as an astronomer, Mook knows how to use the Theory of Relativity to his advantage, and when you know that, no deficit is too deep.
DVOA really should finish in the medals, but team leader Clem "the power" McGrath will pack all his sentences of key instructions with so many polysyllabic words that the DVOA team members will make the perfectly understandable assumption that they were being addressed in Finnish or maybe even Urdu, and they will still be thumbing their dictionaries in hope of a translation while first leg runners from other clubs are tagging off their second leg runners, and then it will be too late for even DVOA, "the BAOC of the East, but without the Poison Oak", as they like to style themselves.
Of course, additional last minute entries, in the form of key runners from other clubs, could hugely change the pre-race guessing. In particular it is interesting to speculate what Cambridge Sports Union might do, but for the moment they must be in a state of indescribable shock at today's announcement of the withdrawal of several other very large unions from the AFL-CIO, and are probably too numb for the moment to even drink coffee and scarf donuts or engage in various time honored schemes of corruption like good union members should.
Jul 27, 2005 6:48 AM
#
and what about the host club, RMOC? - are there any good runners left to survive this tough competition?
Jul 27, 2005 6:58 AM
#
No, of course not. The sharp dressed men and strong women with legs of the Rockies have been decimated by attack badgers and resurgent hockey players, who, now that they have got an agreement signed, are not going to stand for being pushed around by scrawny runner types any longer. Mosquitoes haven't helped much either.
Jul 27, 2005 11:29 AM
#
On the other hand, RMOC's AARP division (people born early enough to actually collect Social Security) could be dangerous in the 20-point category, anchored by George "Beat-Whip-Puree" Bramhall.
Swampfox fails to mention NTOA, whose possibilities have not been fully explored, and whose numerology is yet to be examined, but who are showing up in such numbers (the third-largest contigent) that they must have some potential. HOC is close behind in terms of participation, but with fewer recognizable names.
Other than CSU, not much is to be expected from the Northeast region, where NEOC used to be semi-dominant in the pre-modern relay age. Of NEOC, UNO, CNYO, HVO, and WCOC, the only one that has enough runners registered to field a team is WCOC, and then only if they can persuade their F-10 into going out in the mass start (although that would get them to 12 points).
Swampfox fails to mention NTOA, whose possibilities have not been fully explored, and whose numerology is yet to be examined, but who are showing up in such numbers (the third-largest contigent) that they must have some potential. HOC is close behind in terms of participation, but with fewer recognizable names.
Other than CSU, not much is to be expected from the Northeast region, where NEOC used to be semi-dominant in the pre-modern relay age. Of NEOC, UNO, CNYO, HVO, and WCOC, the only one that has enough runners registered to field a team is WCOC, and then only if they can persuade their F-10 into going out in the mass start (although that would get them to 12 points).
Jul 27, 2005 2:52 PM
#
NEOC and SLOC both, when compared to their glory years of the late 70s and early 80s, collapsed deeper than a sub-Saharan African country ravaged by AIDs.
But I have hopes that SLOC will one day rebound and become stronger than ever.
One can not rationally have the same hopes for NEOC, weakened as it has been by in-breeding, nepotism, and infiltration by Harvard professors. 20 years ago it would have been impossible to envision that CSU would have so thoroughly wrestled away NEOC's position of utter dominance, much less that notable personages such as Peter Gagarin would have made the switch in clubs.
But I have hopes that SLOC will one day rebound and become stronger than ever.
One can not rationally have the same hopes for NEOC, weakened as it has been by in-breeding, nepotism, and infiltration by Harvard professors. 20 years ago it would have been impossible to envision that CSU would have so thoroughly wrestled away NEOC's position of utter dominance, much less that notable personages such as Peter Gagarin would have made the switch in clubs.
Jul 27, 2005 3:19 PM
#
DVOA’s Brobdingnagian language is not at all an impediment to our success. Rather, by vesting multidimensional meaning in ostensibly simple constructs, we have crafted a defensible competitive advantage that will trump any navigational or speed advantages potentially held by other clubs.
We possess the facility to communicate with the utmost precision and efficiency; to pillory our challengers while showering the organizers with encomium; and to entrap our pursuers in verbal quagmires.
If so inclined, one could begin to understand the inspiration for our project by studying Wittgenstein’s so called “Private Language Argument.” But, evidently, we have succeeded in this endeavor beyond this august theorist’s wildest expectations, so don’t get your hopes up.
Therefore, when the DVOA relay team is overheard bandying about seemingly non-sensical words in a maelstrom of prolixity, the competition should quake, because who knows what we are really talking about. It would be wise to fear the worst and get out of the way.
Also, our legal department would like to take issue with one of Mr. Swampfox’s characterizations. It is well known that BAOC is actually regarded “the DVOA of the West, but with poison oak.” This is a subtle but important difference. We are confident he will be happy to admit his error.
We possess the facility to communicate with the utmost precision and efficiency; to pillory our challengers while showering the organizers with encomium; and to entrap our pursuers in verbal quagmires.
If so inclined, one could begin to understand the inspiration for our project by studying Wittgenstein’s so called “Private Language Argument.” But, evidently, we have succeeded in this endeavor beyond this august theorist’s wildest expectations, so don’t get your hopes up.
Therefore, when the DVOA relay team is overheard bandying about seemingly non-sensical words in a maelstrom of prolixity, the competition should quake, because who knows what we are really talking about. It would be wise to fear the worst and get out of the way.
Also, our legal department would like to take issue with one of Mr. Swampfox’s characterizations. It is well known that BAOC is actually regarded “the DVOA of the West, but with poison oak.” This is a subtle but important difference. We are confident he will be happy to admit his error.
Jul 27, 2005 4:54 PM
#
BAOC will most likely field its strongest team in the 8-point category, as we will have no fast youngsters in attendance this year (and Wyatt has finally decided to be a full-time DVOAer).
As Swampfox says, we will have enough bodies in attendance to field a reasonably competitive 4-point team as well, but likely not one that will be in serious contention for one of the top three spots.
As Swampfox says, we will have enough bodies in attendance to field a reasonably competitive 4-point team as well, but likely not one that will be in serious contention for one of the top three spots.
Jul 27, 2005 5:32 PM
#
Any thoughts on the most exciting US Relay? Probably the best ones I've been to was the one in 1996 as part of the Round-up, the battle between Ontario and New Brunswick with a few US teams thrown in. I was on the B team and almost had a protest filed against me for not using a water cup. Dave Donaldson came from behind to beat Mike Smith on the 3rd leg and then Hammer stayed ahead of Wil in the final.
The one in French Creek maybe the year before that was also great and tight. I seem to remember one in ONA which featured a mega long finish sprint between two teams down a twisty shoot. Who was involved in that one?
Boris vs. Balter in Vermont highlighted that day, as well as Vlad walking around with the megaphone going, "Where is John Fredricksson?"
The one in French Creek maybe the year before that was also great and tight. I seem to remember one in ONA which featured a mega long finish sprint between two teams down a twisty shoot. Who was involved in that one?
Boris vs. Balter in Vermont highlighted that day, as well as Vlad walking around with the megaphone going, "Where is John Fredricksson?"
Jul 27, 2005 5:34 PM
#
I was trying to refrain from mentioning the Texans (which JJ brings up), because they can be a testy lot at times, more prickly than the cactus that grow in such abundance in West Texas that if they could only somehow be de-spined and boiled down into something semi-palatable and turned to money, every Texan could read and write. Well, nearly every Texan--some are known to be incorrigible. This pricklyness in character is best exemplified by that noted Texan, the Prez himself, who will not tolerate the least little bit of criticism. Some say he ain't no Texan, but you're not going to catch me saying that. Uh-uh. No way! This Prez gets to say the facts are whatever he says they are, and everyone has to believe him or else they are unpatriotic as hell, and maybe even liberals.
NTOA might be different though. There are rumors they have some yankees in their mist, and that will indeed set a different sort of tang to the BBQ.
NTOA might be different though. There are rumors they have some yankees in their mist, and that will indeed set a different sort of tang to the BBQ.
Jul 27, 2005 6:06 PM
#
Prez? Do you mean the past Prez of NTOA (PSnell), the present/new Prez of NTOA (me), or some other Prez of some significance? What Prez could you possibly be talking about? And I'm only cranky if you mention that you shot another azimuth.
Lisa and I are passing on the relay. We are taking that day to sleep in after the night-O and then be tourists for a day. The other registered NTOA'ers are, I think, all juniors. My guess would be that the ones to watch are the young ladies. If there is a females-only category, they might-could be competitive regardless of points.
Lisa and I are passing on the relay. We are taking that day to sleep in after the night-O and then be tourists for a day. The other registered NTOA'ers are, I think, all juniors. My guess would be that the ones to watch are the young ladies. If there is a females-only category, they might-could be competitive regardless of points.
Jul 27, 2005 7:00 PM
#
Eric wrote: Watch out for COC in the 12-point category: The Family Breseman.
Not registered as of today...
Not registered as of today...
Jul 27, 2005 7:22 PM
#
When Swampfox talks about the Prez, I think the only thing you have in common with the guy he's referring to is your middle initial, Tom.
Jul 27, 2005 7:43 PM
#
These clubs have 4 or more people registered for the relay:
BAOC 18
COC 6
CSU 5
DVOA 8
HOC 13
NMO 4
NTOA 15
QOC 5
RMOC 16
SLOC 6
SVO 7
BAOC 18
COC 6
CSU 5
DVOA 8
HOC 13
NMO 4
NTOA 15
QOC 5
RMOC 16
SLOC 6
SVO 7
Jul 27, 2005 8:08 PM
#
Its great to learn that SLOC had some Relay glory years - and that at least one person remembers them. Since '91, I believe that SLOC's only Relay team was '93(?) in Colorado: Two 11-year old Yellows (Glennon Frei and Zan); Al Smith; and me. Swampfox threw down the gauntlet and a bold Zan accepted his formidable challenge - Leg 2 in Colorado! Al and I both finished before Zan - but she finished! A well-placed Florisaant Fossil Bed "You are Here" sign played a starring role!
SLOC is back! Last year 2 SLOC, 1 ex-SLOC (Mary Jones); and 1 adopted SLOC (Jim Eagleton) finished less than 1-minute behind the Breseman's in 12-point category. This year we do have a 12-point SLOC team - beware!
SLOC is back! Last year 2 SLOC, 1 ex-SLOC (Mary Jones); and 1 adopted SLOC (Jim Eagleton) finished less than 1-minute behind the Breseman's in 12-point category. This year we do have a 12-point SLOC team - beware!
Jul 27, 2005 8:20 PM
#
In response to Nev-Monster, I'd like to add a couple of other exciting relays in recent memory:
1) Valley Forge in 1999, where DVOA defeated HVO after Balter (then running for HVO, just like me) made a 180 out of the start in full view of spectators, letting Clem get a lead he would not relinquish. Now i know why Greg asked me to pass the relay to him in second place, not in the lead...
2) Last year in Maine, when Will Hawkins completed CSU's comeback from 8:30 down after two legs by passing some US stars down the stretch, including Zhyk, Fredrickson, Bergeron, and Everett, as far as I can recall.
1) Valley Forge in 1999, where DVOA defeated HVO after Balter (then running for HVO, just like me) made a 180 out of the start in full view of spectators, letting Clem get a lead he would not relinquish. Now i know why Greg asked me to pass the relay to him in second place, not in the lead...
2) Last year in Maine, when Will Hawkins completed CSU's comeback from 8:30 down after two legs by passing some US stars down the stretch, including Zhyk, Fredrickson, Bergeron, and Everett, as far as I can recall.
Jul 27, 2005 8:50 PM
#
Gail (4), Viktoria (3), Suzanne (2), and Peter (3) against the Bresemans against the NTOA Jr. Girls (presumably Bauer, Zavala, Montgomery, and Worsham). That could be a interesting 12 point race, if it happens.
I'd predict CSU by about 3:30-4:00 over the Bresemans and hope NTOA stays within 12:00-15:00 for a good boost of confidence.
I'd predict CSU by about 3:30-4:00 over the Bresemans and hope NTOA stays within 12:00-15:00 for a good boost of confidence.
Jul 27, 2005 9:37 PM
#
Though Ryan and Kelsey are improving, I'd still predict a larger victory for CSU. But the beauty of the point system and the inaugeration of 12-point teams, is that this scenario will (probably) never happen. All four of these CSU runners will be drafted by (and probably prefer)4-point and 8-point CSU teams. However, 12-point teams are 'naturals' for the Breseman's (until COC's top team really NEEDS Ryan!), SLOC, and NTOA - hmmm, how about putting Miki and Peter on the NTOA team?
Latest Zan sighting: driving west through MA to pick up Ross, then get to CO by Monday.
Latest Zan sighting: driving west through MA to pick up Ross, then get to CO by Monday.
Jul 27, 2005 10:17 PM
#
SLOC has a decent, even potentially winning, 8-point team (Rick Armstrong, Anna Shaffer-Skelton, David Frei, and myself). The problem is getting all 4 to the champs. Sadly, that wasn't a possibility this year. We'd even have a competitive 4-point squad, albeit a real longshot for the win, if we could get Gary Thompson and Jeff Sona to run national meets. Maybe next year.
Jul 27, 2005 11:33 PM
#
Well, you know what they say, 99% of success in life is just from showing up...and shooting azimuths.
Jul 28, 2005 1:04 PM
#
hmmm... I have a distinct memory of that 'you are here map' and the curious and slightly concerned look on the face of someone out for a walk in the park seeing an 11yr old girl dressed in strange clothing carefullying matching up the trails on the map in her hand to the one on the billboard.
Jul 28, 2005 9:43 PM
#
Indeed my allegience has finally switched to my wife's team, and the region I've lived in for 3 years as of yesterday. Vadim, Angelica, Clem & I may need to rethink our strategy now that alpacian spit is in the picture... DVOA's got 8 people and 16 points, so we can split 8 & 8 or 4 & 12... If the BAOCers are leaving a trail of poison oak oil dripping of their O'suits on the 8-point loop, that'll be an unpleasant route to follow :) They do seem to have a pretty fast team though, with Chuck Spalding being a darn fast 3 pointer, and Bruce Wolfe himself now worth 2 points. Plus with relay-super-powers Steve Gregg*, that'll be a very solid team.
(*As for relay powers, Steve G. has an amazing list of relay results - it seems that whenever he is out-selected for a spot, and gets on the BAOC B-team, he out-runs the person on the A-team. Bruce Wolfe in the '04 Crystals and Syd Reader in the '99 US relay champs are two cases I recall where we (including Steve) decided Steve was out-gunned, but he managed to beat the other BAOCer anyway... Last year (not counting the teenage runner Velcroed to Mark Voit), Steve was the next fastest on Leg 2 of the Crystal Relays.
(*As for relay powers, Steve G. has an amazing list of relay results - it seems that whenever he is out-selected for a spot, and gets on the BAOC B-team, he out-runs the person on the A-team. Bruce Wolfe in the '04 Crystals and Syd Reader in the '99 US relay champs are two cases I recall where we (including Steve) decided Steve was out-gunned, but he managed to beat the other BAOCer anyway... Last year (not counting the teenage runner Velcroed to Mark Voit), Steve was the next fastest on Leg 2 of the Crystal Relays.
Jul 28, 2005 9:46 PM
#
Hmmm. BAOCers live an average of 1000 miles from the Relay Champs. RMOCers live an average of 100 miles from the Relays champs... Who's got more entrants? Go BAOC!
Jul 28, 2005 9:57 PM
#
As the fox says, "BAOC almost never gets any of their best runners together for a single race". This year James's orienteering is on pause, Dan S-H will be in Japan at WOC (the best excuse, by far...), and I'm not sure what is up with Syd & Doug. Syd has succumbed to both a job and girlfriend since his best days, although he's certainly got the capability to perform a comeback. Doug Stein is 1 point now, although the latest result I found for him is in March. Is he injured again, or just O'ing less?
NTOA appears to have only 2 entrants old enought drink certain after race refreshments - out of 18 total. Impressive...
NTOA appears to have only 2 entrants old enought drink certain after race refreshments - out of 18 total. Impressive...
Jul 29, 2005 5:47 AM
#
These words that "the power" (aka J-man, aka Clem) uses are long and wise, but mostly they are long. Therefore they will need additional study by English PhD candidates across the country before it can be determined if he said anything or not.
If Wyatt is no longer racing for BAOC, then what suit will he wear? DVOA may not be "the BAOC of the East" as someone supposedly alleged, but it is a fact that they have no O' suit current to the millenium. How will DVOA runners be recognized in the relay forest? How will they even recognize each other for the tag-off?
NTOA might not be able to win the National Club Championships with Tex, but they surely have no chance without him. Too bad for Tex, because Lake George is finer than silk and much better for running than the Rio Grande and West Texas and Lone Star beer combined.
If Wyatt is no longer racing for BAOC, then what suit will he wear? DVOA may not be "the BAOC of the East" as someone supposedly alleged, but it is a fact that they have no O' suit current to the millenium. How will DVOA runners be recognized in the relay forest? How will they even recognize each other for the tag-off?
NTOA might not be able to win the National Club Championships with Tex, but they surely have no chance without him. Too bad for Tex, because Lake George is finer than silk and much better for running than the Rio Grande and West Texas and Lone Star beer combined.
Jul 29, 2005 12:09 PM
#
DVOA recently upgraded their smiling bunny logo (with a different smiling bunny logo), so can an O-suit upgrade be far behind? Check it out!
Jul 29, 2005 1:40 PM
#
Rumour has it that people across the country are switching to DVOA, just to their hands on the O-suit JJ linked. Perhaps DVOA will have 3 or 4 teams by next Saturday!
Jul 29, 2005 1:47 PM
#
That's true... and we have one specially dedicated for whichever Swamfoxes come forward. No questions asked.
Jul 29, 2005 2:05 PM
#
I would not want to wear that suit. Just look at it! It will probably draw flies and gnats. It's the kind of thing you might see on an "adventure racer". If the Williams sisters had designed that sort of an affair, critics would be telling them to get back to the tennis, fast!
No club could ever wear that suit and hope to win the prestigious US Relay Championships. And if I am wrong on this (though in my expert opinion on such matters, I very much doubt it) I promise I will eat my words, and even eat some pizza too!
No club could ever wear that suit and hope to win the prestigious US Relay Championships. And if I am wrong on this (though in my expert opinion on such matters, I very much doubt it) I promise I will eat my words, and even eat some pizza too!
Jul 29, 2005 4:36 PM
#
Ah, yes, I remember the first leg of the 1999 Relay Champs at Valley Forge well, for a couple of reasons:
(1) Everyone in the race had the same first control, which was about 300 meters from the start, at a very obvious lone tree in the middle of an open field. And there was only one punch at the control!!! I have never seen such chaos at an orienteering event before or since, as it looked like a bunch of angry bees swarming around the hive. I remember rudely grabbing the punch from someone else's hand and punching before Syd, even though he had arrived there well before me. I figured the US Relay Champs was no time for politeness!
(2) After surviving that encounter, I got dropped by the lead group about two-thirds of the way through the course and was running solo. Shortly after that, there was a control near the top of a gently rising hill, with excellent visibility all the way up. I didn't see anyone in front of me and was puzzled--could I have gotten lost, or be this much behind the leaders? But I found the control just where I thought it would be and finished the rest of the course without incident. Afterwards, I heard the story that ahead of me, Syd and almost all of the lead pack had taken a wrong turn on a PAVED ROAD, and run along the road about 200 meters in the wrong direction before anyone noticed the mistake.
(1) Everyone in the race had the same first control, which was about 300 meters from the start, at a very obvious lone tree in the middle of an open field. And there was only one punch at the control!!! I have never seen such chaos at an orienteering event before or since, as it looked like a bunch of angry bees swarming around the hive. I remember rudely grabbing the punch from someone else's hand and punching before Syd, even though he had arrived there well before me. I figured the US Relay Champs was no time for politeness!
(2) After surviving that encounter, I got dropped by the lead group about two-thirds of the way through the course and was running solo. Shortly after that, there was a control near the top of a gently rising hill, with excellent visibility all the way up. I didn't see anyone in front of me and was puzzled--could I have gotten lost, or be this much behind the leaders? But I found the control just where I thought it would be and finished the rest of the course without incident. Afterwards, I heard the story that ahead of me, Syd and almost all of the lead pack had taken a wrong turn on a PAVED ROAD, and run along the road about 200 meters in the wrong direction before anyone noticed the mistake.
Jul 29, 2005 4:41 PM
#
I think Syd was actually one of the first to recover, dropping off the end of that lead pack through the forest to finish not too far behind Steve... There were a number of interesting bogeys at that event. Was it the good spectator setup that allowed the stories to be seen? Or simply the 105 heat index, that scrambled brains..?
Jul 29, 2005 5:12 PM
#
Actually I want to go on record as saying that one of the easy things a club can do to make it look like it is a real club is to get together a credible club suit. So I salute DVOA! What about NEOC then? Do they have anything in the works too, or are they still running around in those pre-Neanderthal, green-red-white monkey capes?
Jul 29, 2005 7:28 PM
#
ken:
rumor has it that NEOCers are seeking to wear CSU suits instead. but actually we're now all out of those, so we have to get some new ones too. until then, our new members are running naked in order to feed the FDFs.
Jul 30, 2005 1:19 AM
#
Hm... I wish I had bought a new US team supporter suit - the one I have is not holding up as well as I had predicted.
Maybe I should actually mend the holes for now.
Maybe I should actually mend the holes for now.
Jul 30, 2005 10:14 PM
#
Eric wrote: Watch out for COC in the 12-point category: The Family Breseman.
Valerie: Not registered as of today...
-All part of a carefully developed plan started in '89 and involving last minute surprise registration in '05. shhh.
-Actually, Ryan on a 10 boy scout hike starting today. Busy petitioning now for 15 pt team category to suit new team makeup
-Rick
Valerie: Not registered as of today...
-All part of a carefully developed plan started in '89 and involving last minute surprise registration in '05. shhh.
-Actually, Ryan on a 10 boy scout hike starting today. Busy petitioning now for 15 pt team category to suit new team makeup
-Rick
Jul 31, 2005 7:06 PM
#
Monkey capes are not a problem. It was all the #?@! options that sucked NEOC-ness out of our look. It is permitted to substitute red-green-white for green-red-white, and you can even substitute squirrel knickers.
My green-white-red O-suit has recently been complimented by a sub-30 judge at a sprint-O/fashion-O that included a competitor from CSU. Plus, it appears among the West Point results in the latest O/NA.
My green-white-red O-suit has recently been complimented by a sub-30 judge at a sprint-O/fashion-O that included a competitor from CSU. Plus, it appears among the West Point results in the latest O/NA.
Jul 31, 2005 8:06 PM
#
Well, maybe monkey capes aren't a problem and I was wrong about them. Still, anyone who decides to tourist through the Denver Zoo in between races out here and who is seen eating a banana while at the same time wearing one of those NEOC racing capes could really be in for it. They will need all their sprinting skills to elude the zookeepers, who will try to catch the caped banana eater and insert them in the the chimpanzee cage. And I'll bet chimpanzees are *not* fond of monkey capes! After they have eaten whatever was left of the banana, what activity do you think they will favor next??? A little cape shredding, perhaps? Even chimpanzees have feelings, and do not like being mocked.
There are those who say that NEOC has never been the same since Jim Baker and John Rogers departed for parts more western. All I know is that back in those halcyon pre-departure days, NEOCers didn't race in monkey capes, at least not often enough that it was a problem. And you have to explain the incredible implosion of NEOC *somehow* (when was the last time that once mighty club won the US Relay Champs?), and the monkey cape explanation is the most satisfactory.
Anyway, the suit that matters will be whatever super speedy SVO has donned. Their usual color of choice is torquoise, and when racing west of the Mississippi they often add rhinestones and O-spurs to complete the cowboy-O look.
Incidentally, now that word about their (SVO's) top secret Alpaca strategy has leaked out, there are whisperings that they might go in some new direction and perhaps resort to their much favored "brute strength" tactic, and simply crush all opposition with the sheer leg speed that they can throw down like no other club can.
There are those who say that NEOC has never been the same since Jim Baker and John Rogers departed for parts more western. All I know is that back in those halcyon pre-departure days, NEOCers didn't race in monkey capes, at least not often enough that it was a problem. And you have to explain the incredible implosion of NEOC *somehow* (when was the last time that once mighty club won the US Relay Champs?), and the monkey cape explanation is the most satisfactory.
Anyway, the suit that matters will be whatever super speedy SVO has donned. Their usual color of choice is torquoise, and when racing west of the Mississippi they often add rhinestones and O-spurs to complete the cowboy-O look.
Incidentally, now that word about their (SVO's) top secret Alpaca strategy has leaked out, there are whisperings that they might go in some new direction and perhaps resort to their much favored "brute strength" tactic, and simply crush all opposition with the sheer leg speed that they can throw down like no other club can.
Jul 31, 2005 11:50 PM
#
And you have to explain the incredible implosion of NEOC *somehow* (when was the last time that once mighty club won the US Relay Champs?)
8-point division: 2002 (Saeger-Saeger-Saeger-Gagarin)
4-point division: 1993 (Lee-Gagarin-Taylor-Swampfox!)
8-point division: 2002 (Saeger-Saeger-Saeger-Gagarin)
4-point division: 1993 (Lee-Gagarin-Taylor-Swampfox!)
Aug 1, 2005 10:55 PM
#
When BAOC won the 'open' category at the US Relay champs in 1994 (was that the year at French Creek?), it was one of the first years (I think...) that the Open category had become officially unoffical, and the 4-Point category was the new 'real' championships category. If forget if it was that year, or later years, where the 8-point category and/or 12-point category came into existence.
Perhaps because I am insenstive M21 orienteer, I've always felt that it's more prestigious to win the hardest category you can enter, which, for clubs at the relay champs has, for the last several years, been the 4-point category. Just like Swampfox & Balter, just to name a few, usually continue running the 'open' M21 to continue to crush the hardest possible compeition.
If a club could put together a team that would be a medal contender in _either_ the 4 point category, or the 8 point category, my bias above would lean toward the 4 point category. Even if the potential of gold was somewhat diminished. Now if a club had a good shot of 8 point gold, vs. a relatively lower chance of 4 point gold, I can understand the reason to run 8 points...
Am I unusual in my bias toward the 4 point category?
Perhaps because I am insenstive M21 orienteer, I've always felt that it's more prestigious to win the hardest category you can enter, which, for clubs at the relay champs has, for the last several years, been the 4-point category. Just like Swampfox & Balter, just to name a few, usually continue running the 'open' M21 to continue to crush the hardest possible compeition.
If a club could put together a team that would be a medal contender in _either_ the 4 point category, or the 8 point category, my bias above would lean toward the 4 point category. Even if the potential of gold was somewhat diminished. Now if a club had a good shot of 8 point gold, vs. a relatively lower chance of 4 point gold, I can understand the reason to run 8 points...
Am I unusual in my bias toward the 4 point category?
Aug 1, 2005 11:15 PM
#
Wyatt is not unusual in his thinking. Instead, Wyatt is thinking like a champion and demonstrating tremendous sisu. A blood test would reveal Finnish lineage, for sure. Wyatt are (using BT grammar) authorized to take sauna! The 8 and 12 point categories are mostly for weenies, the unexperienced, the infirm, and those who run in extreme monkey capes.
Aug 2, 2005 12:06 AM
#
ken:
I think we're mostly in agreement with wyatt here. 4-pts is where the excitement is, and clubs should try to field at least one team there. otherwise, why not add 5,6,7... point categories to ensure that there is no head-head racing, and everyone gets a medal? I exaggerate, but you get the idea.
Aug 2, 2005 1:18 AM
#
PG:
So, CSU master, should Viktoria, Suzanne, Gail, and I (a fine 12 point foursome, not to mention "young and beautiful"), run in the 4-point class to bring the greatest honor to CSU, while at the same time getting our collective asses kicked.... or do we run in the 8-point class and get a respectible finish and possibly a medal, and bring a very modest amount of honor to CSU.... or do we dishonor CSU forever by stomping on all the "compeition" in the 12-point class?
What says the master? And what say the honorable Willhawk, and Boris-san, and Karen of Sweden, and all the other young studs and studettes of CSU? What are we to do?
What says the master? And what say the honorable Willhawk, and Boris-san, and Karen of Sweden, and all the other young studs and studettes of CSU? What are we to do?
Aug 2, 2005 1:40 AM
#
feet:
I think young Master Walker has missed an opportunity to turn to the dark side (or to show up at the relay champs and prove his mettle). Take the 12 point glory. If you can't win 'em all, at least win something.
(PG, you even look a bit like Yoda, now I come to think of it...)
(PG, you even look a bit like Yoda, now I come to think of it...)
Aug 2, 2005 2:39 AM
#
sisu (Finnish) - determination. There are next year relays where all mighty clubs will show their colors in full saturation. This year relays happened to interfere with a lot of other events for those of us who have limited vacation time. In my opinion (not like anyone is asking it) the team members are to decide what competition to be part of.
Aug 2, 2005 5:09 AM
#
ken:
young master walker conceeds he is all talk these days, and will make no specific recommendation for the gorgeous foursome. an alternative studette-approved glory-maximizing approach would be to choose the category where the team can be expected to finish ahead of as many other teams as possible (regardless of how many teams are expected to be faster), with special bonus glory awarded for finishing just in front of a DVOA team.
Aug 2, 2005 6:35 AM
#
Karen of Sweden (no longer a "young studette")says stomp away (there should be plenty a sage to stomp)...and look good doing it. Save the "getting our butts kicked" for Jukola and the like (and if you are on the first leg, it could be literal). Dishonor in stomping?...do or do not...there is no try.
Aug 3, 2005 5:19 PM
#
The Russian New York Team (not a club yet, but 4 points) - Doverov (M55+), Rybachuk(M45+), Balter (M40+) and Zhyk (M21+) is entering the relay for this Saturday just to make things more interesting and put some needed O-training under our belts before US Champs in Oregon
Aug 4, 2005 12:11 AM
#
Peter, as an always young studette, I would recommend that you enter and win the 4-point division. However, if you decide that such an act will cause great dishonor to all the other clubs and lead them to commit seppuku, then perhaps it will be the noble thing to do to run the 12-point category and, hopefully, get another gold for CSU.
From Tsukude,
Boris-san
From Tsukude,
Boris-san
Aug 4, 2005 2:45 AM
#
34.5.2 Teams SHALL be categorized by total points based on the orienteering age and gender of their members.
If this rule is to be interpreted literally, I think the proposed foursome would run with the 12 pointers regardless. The leeway with the individual age categories (pluses and minuses instead of minimums and maximums) doesn't follow to the relay part of the rules.
Of course, what the organisers allow onsite may differ from the armchair opinions given while one is bored at work.
If this rule is to be interpreted literally, I think the proposed foursome would run with the 12 pointers regardless. The leeway with the individual age categories (pluses and minuses instead of minimums and maximums) doesn't follow to the relay part of the rules.
Of course, what the organisers allow onsite may differ from the armchair opinions given while one is bored at work.
Aug 4, 2005 3:20 AM
#
Clem, Our sponsor's name can be found right next to your question. Some rent money were put away to sponsor Orienteering trips, and I ,being the trustee on this fund, felt this was right ocasion.
Aug 4, 2005 10:11 PM
#
Yeah I agree with Nev-Monster. 1996 was a great race! Next year is the 10th anniversary of that epic race! Time for a re-union. But since then the newbies have scattered across Canada and the Globe and Snoop joined GHO.
Aug 7, 2005 8:33 PM
#
PG:
Even hotter news, CSU has rlled to an easy 12-point win, and we were done and changed before Eddie was even out.
Aug 7, 2005 11:45 PM
#
And DVOA was right behind 'em - Silvers in the 4 and 12 pt... The 12 point being especially impressive coming in well ahead of expectations!
Aug 8, 2005 2:15 AM
#
Why the lack of positive energy regarding DVOA? We're hardly like the Yankees (towards whom some harbor animosity for their own assorted reasons). Indeed, one could make the case that CSU fits in this mold, as it sucks in the best high-priced talent from afar.
DVOA, in large part, has a legitimate farm system and develops talent internally (with some exceptions.)
Of course there could be other reasons for the DVOA bonus rule, but I guess I'm too obstuse or not creative enough to discern them.
DVOA, in large part, has a legitimate farm system and develops talent internally (with some exceptions.)
Of course there could be other reasons for the DVOA bonus rule, but I guess I'm too obstuse or not creative enough to discern them.
This discussion thread is closed.