Discussion: 2015 Australian Carnival Program options

A question regarding the format of the 2015 Australian Championships Carnival in Ballarat. What program do people prefer and why?

Option a) Sat - Aus Sprint, Sun - Aus Long, Tue - Schools Sprint, Wed - Schools Individual + public race, Thu am - Schools Relay, Thu pm - public Street O, Sat - Aus Middle, Sun - Aus Relay.

Option b) Sat - Aus Middle, Sun - Vic Long, Mon - Schools Sprint, Tue - Schools Individual + public race, Wed - Schools Relay + public race, Thu pm - public Street O, Fri - Aus Sprint, Sat - Aus Long, Sun - Aus Relay.

Please comment below.

Input will be considered by the 2015 Committee for planning purposes. Thank you.

My opinion probably doesn't count for a lot given that I've never attended an Aus Champs but I prefer option b on the basis that I will just enter as many races as I can and I am planning on going, holidays and other clashes permitting.

p.s. needs more maze

Preferrably corn maze, so we can send an Australian junket delegation to the CMOUSA champs next year to stop them turning it into a "world championships" a la baseball.

As a Sandgroper, I would have to say Option B because neither Aus Sprint & Long or Aus Middle & Relay would seem worth the cost of flights for a single weekend.

If I was going to do the whole thing, I would say option a) as I find it pretty impossible to do anything worthwhile the day after the long. If I could only make one weekend I would be like Juffy and target the Fri-Sun of the second weekend and it would feel much more worthwhile, so option b). I had considered coming to one weekend this year, but my favourite and least favourite events (middle and relay) were on the same weekend, so I couldn't find the motivation for either weekend.

As it is, I will probably not do either and be happy in my retirement from competitive orienteering, so I hope you get some more useful input.

Don't you like relays, Fletch? Where's your team spirit?

Oh yeah, from a recovery point of view I'd go with option (a) but seriously, I suck at orienteering so no amount of recovery is going to make me more competitive in the following day's event.

Therefore rest days are overrated. Option (b).

Sorry. Didn't order favourite and least favourite correctly. I love relays. Middles are growing on me, but still my least favourite.

A: better to avoid major races on a work day if at all possible (unless the vast majority will be staying for the week as per Tasmania and maybe Perth, but possibly not for Victoria).

Hi Bruce - seems like only Sandgropers contribute to AP threads, sometimes it seems like only tRicky does!

My view is that the mid-week events are a waste of time, but like many (most?) older orienteers we will attend both weekends and do touristy things during the intervening week. I think the street event especially will not be particularly popular. Option a was the format used this year in ACT and seemed to work well. A weekend with long and relay is pretty tough, especially when people have to race to the airport after the relay.

Please try to expedite the presentations at all the events!

Option A. I enjoyed having only 2 major races each weekend this year and thought it resulted in less burnout for the relay.

One of the main reasons option A was chosen this year in the ACT was to make life easier for the organisers and gear shifters - the gear needed for the sprint was minimal and the Long could be set up with most of the ACT O gear and the hired tents on the Saturday before the Sunday event. Also the Middle and Relay were held on the same map which helped organisers - but originally the Relay was going to be on area close to the Middle - so having the events on the same weekend meant gear shifted was going to be less.
However after running these events I agree with simmo and some others that it worked well for runners as it was less demanding having to front up to a relay after the long - I had a whole week to recover and get some physio! - plus it can mean that a more physically challenging area can be used for the relay (as runners are only recovering from the Middle the day before) rather than the easy 'paddock' runs sometimes used for the relay.

I was the original proponent of something like option a for this year's races, on the basis that it would save work and focus the biggest races on the weekend. The major objection was that a middle + relay wouldn't attract many people, but in the end we had almost the same numbers for each weekend, with 200 odd people who did one weekend and not the other.

I think the mid-week races are a waste of time and effort, and am disappointed to see we're now adding yet another event to the program (the schools sprint) without removing an event! Carnivals are already too complex, and have too many events...

I wasnt at this years carnival but I like the way option A looks. The main reason being that which others have mentioned - a relay after a long distance is incredibly tough and the relay is one of the best events you want to be feeling your strongest for.

In regards to the mid-week events, I think for the schools kids they are definitely not a waste of time. For a lot of them I think it is one of the most important and looked-forwards-to races/weeks of the year. Plus isnt the whole national schools championships thing good for Orienteering Australia? (I just kind of always assumed that it was but I guess I dont really know...). For everyone else maybe a little bit of a waste, but how hard is it to print a few extra maps and let the general public that have decided to attend these races do the same course afterwards?
Cant say Id be jumping out of my skin to run an extra street event in the mid week though...

yeah normally i'd agree with you hoggster re adding events but the schools is a special case. a schools sprint would be a great experience for the kids, obviously more work for organisers but.

Bruce i'm definitely for option A. for a few reasons, all of which have already been mentioned!

Option a for me. I agree with Andy's philosophy and I felt like people are more likely to travel to both weekends with national champs on both days of both weekends. I put this idea across to WA orienteering council a while ago after seeing Canberra's program as a suggestion for our 2014 carnival and got told I was elite and don't realise old people like their long races and old people won't travel to both weekends if there isn't a long event on both weekends. I guess it was flattering to be told I was elite and not considered old.

Sorry Josh, I'll rephrase. The mid-week public events are a waste of time -- agree that schools champs are great. Still not convinced that they need a sprint as well.

To be honest I'm not overly fussed which way it goes but then I am neither elite nor old. If there is an event on, I will do it! I can see how option (b) might attract a bunch of people to the second weekend but not the first, if they had a choice of just one.

I don't know what Simmo means by "touristy things" though.

Yeah, that's my point. Too easy to just travel to the weekend that has three championship events and forget the other one. I've done just the second weekend fairly often, although that has often also been influenced by ridiculous airfares for the first weekend due to footy grand finals.

Best get your tickets for next year's Aus Champs now then! Oh wait...

I'm not overly fussed which way it goes but then I am neither elite nor old

But you're almost as old as Rachel! And as we all know, if you're old you don't know what it's like to be elite.

Rachel was told she was not old you mould.

Dammit, I promised myself I wouldn't hijack this thread.

convinced for A now

Like the look of option A Bruce.

I'm for option A too, for the combination of races and avoiding important races on week days.

I vote for A, though normally I would like B, but for since I live in Vic I don't mind traveling to both weekends. For the WA, QLD, TAS options I would vote for B as 5 races are better than 4, or the option of going for one weekend is still good.

I like A better, however I think there needs to be flexibility, especially for the running of sprint events - sometimes the day suitable for the sprint is dependent on the availability of the venue.
I like the long and the sprint on the one weekend, the middle and relay on the other weekend for reasons already mentioned.
I think it's a positive to just have the National events on both weekends as happened this year, rather than the host States long champs as well.
I think to have a schools sprint, individual and relay is the right order midweek, although once again the sprint venue availability (bush or park/urban) may determine that. To have public events on each of these days is all that's needed - don't really need a street event for the public, would be much better to encourage the public to spectate/encourage our national schools competitors by spectating and then running their courses.

option A for sure.

Definitely A. For reasons that have already been mentioned.

As an "older orienteer" I probably do prefer the traditional longer events more so than sprint, but my preference for 2015 has more to do with the fact that Option B offers me more event options overall. That's not to say I'd necessarily do them all, simply that it gives me more choice.

Location always makes a difference. The further away it is the more likely you will try and maximise the events to offset the costs/traveltimel and stay the whole week. I did drop the second weekend as it was close enough (5 hour drive) to make it worthwhile to just drive down and back on a slightly extended weekend (my annual leave days were low and also played a big part in my decision making process)

So given the choice of one weekend or the other at ACT this year, I decided I'd prefer Sprint/Long over Miiddle/relay. I would always go for weekend featuring the Long event.

I'd take a guess and suggest for non-elites, excluding street events, relays are their least favourite format....I could be wrong though.

Option A for all supporting reasons previously stated.
Another thought - from Schools perspective - I think it is good to add in another day of competition for them in another discipline - a carnival within a carnival and it would also justify their "camp" time for whole week.
Depending on officials availability I think putting on a Street event in the afternoon of the Schools Relay might stretch the budget for not a lot of "profit" or benefit. Plus it will deplete any crowd we are trying to generate for Schools Relays anyway.
And thanks for canvassing!

Option A

Option B - a weekend with a Middle and a Relay is not worth travelling to for me as likelihood is that it will be some relay team not my age group or mixed and not worth the trouble. So prefefrence depends on your age group and how many going from your state/age group I think.

A

Option A.

Flick any mid-week events that aren't attached to the school events.

Isn't WA running WA Long, Aus Sprint & Aus Middle on the first (long) weekend next year?

Yes.

And Oz long and relay the following weekend

With no sprint for the schoolies.

They can party at Margs afterwards.

Just because it is doesn't mean it should be!

Damned West Aussies have to do everything their own way don't they?

Don't ask me. I'm Canadian ;)

Please do option A. Even though were young, we still cant run full-on for a week with only one rest day. Also, the relay at the end will not just end up a matter of survival, we should all still be able to race well.

Nice!

What are the proposed dates for this event?

26th Sept - 4th Oct 2015

It appears in quite a few posts the phrase "Street-O" is being used as code for "Rest Day". Why not make this a reality for the organisers as well.

MTBO?

and make sure theres a good dj for the schools after party ;)

I would have said talk to Leon Keely, but I am told he has sold his gear and is spending a bit of time in Sweden.
PS to tRicky. MTBO is also code for rest day for most competitors. Not many bikes came to Easter this year despite the potential to commute to most events by bike.

I'm told by those who were there that Oscar Phillips did a great job in 2012, but I'm not sure if he'd be interested in coming to events in Victoria.

I think Oscar lives in Victoria now. The only MTBO events I saw him at this year were the Vic Champs.

Neil, no worries - Easter is one of the very few times I get to travel without the bike!

Yes, I was actually disappointed by how few bikes were parked in the pines on the final day of Easter. I even rode there.

Trust me, if I wasn't traveling with four other people I may have thought about it. I'm strongly considering taking it to Easter and the following weekend's NOL round next year just so I can do the ride over the mountains from Lithgow to the other side but transporting the bike on the plane for a trip not involving a bike race seems too hard.