Discussion: cliff cave trails

did you know there is a proposal to run a paved trail through the sinkhole area to connect Telegraph w the floodplain loop? One of the few patches of somewhat unspoiled woods in near suburb/inner city St. Louis and they want to ruin it...Sad.

had not heard. wish they'd spend the $ on finishing grants trail.

They have to spend the money where they can. I imagine lots of property issues for grants trail completion. The schematic plan shows 3 bridges! one over cliff cave road near the top of the hill, one over the cave creek canyon near the cave, and one over the creek near the park entrance to the west. It will certainly be a much different place. In itself, it could be regarded as an improvement, if only there were plenty of unimproved natural areas anywhere nearby.

How does Cliff Cave qualify as unspoiled? There's a car, or washing machine, or oil drum at the bottom of nearly every hole. Maybe if enough people see that via a paved trail, it will get cleaned up.

I had the same thought. Decided that woods with dirt trails was close enough in a city environment.

I'm not knocking CC; if I didn't think it was cool spot, I wouldn't have spent a hundred hours mapping it. I just don't see how a paved trail spoils anything.

well, for one thing it brings people, perhaps many, noisy people. not that i have anything against that in general, just that I like the woods as a respite from all that.
And a paved trail takes away from the sense of being enclosed and nurtured by nature. When I see a deer in the woods I feel accepted as a guest in their world. Its refreshing not to see any signs of mans heavy hand in the landscape. You dont get that? Its obvious many people dont or our world would look quite different.

Sure, I get it. I just don't ever remember feeling that way at Cliff Cave, even when I was mapping on a weekday and was the only person in the park. It's great sinkhole terrain, but there's nothing idyllic about it.

I beg to differ, sir, when its your closest fix of runnable woods available, and a short drive away at 5am, its idyllic. Uninterrupted treevisuals seem to be an important idyllic qualifier/quantifier. A grove of trees in a city park will only keep a starving man alive until the next real meal. So your experience is different than mine. what else is new.