Discussion: Wow

You are fast! It took me 3:31 to ski 34km today! I've got some work to do!

Conditions were fast for skating. Gorgeous snow, relatively mild temps and great grooming do help with speed, plus I'm pretty sure the hills here are a just a bit smaller than yours.

And Carbon failed to mention that she was on classic skis, which makes a bit of a difference too. (Although Coach LD *is* fast.)

I had noticed Carbon was classic skiing, so she was actually going at a pretty good pace if you ask me.

Coach ld, would you know if it is normal to feel very tired in the upper arms when single poling (single striding)? I have learned to double pole without tiring my arms by using my core but single poling kills my arms, especially on the climbs. Am I doing something wrong do you think, or do I just need to build my strength more?

Yeah, some of the climbs at Pocaterra are hard. I'm sure bash remembers Whiskey Jack and the alike. Lots of herring boning and sweating :), but then you get to enjoy some ripping fast down hills! I'm loving the down hills now. Last year I sucked at anything downhill but now I'm loving it. I'm getting more comfortable in the light and flimsy gear.

Hey Carbon, I'm sure you can find someone much more qualified and closer to home than I am to watch you and critique your technique. But it is quite possible that you are using your arms more than you should be when you are diagonal striding (classic). Is it your triceps that start to get tight and ache? If so, try getting more forward lean (more bend at your ankles) so that when you do plant the pole you are pressing down on it with your core rather than pulling yourself along with your arms only - just like double poling. There will be some up-and-down with your trunk from the waist, kind of a bounce, but the forward lean is from the ankles. If it's more your traps/shoulders that get sore, try to check every once in a while that you're not shrugging and let your shoulders come down away from your ears so your neck is long and your arms are swinging smoothly. Your hand should release the pole (the strap keeps it on), throwing the fingers down and behind you after your hand passes your hip. Then your wrist should snap back up and forward causing the arm to bend as it swings forward for the next pole plant. If you keep the arm straight to swing it forward and up, you tend to lift/work the traps and that can cause tightness. If that made any sense at all I'll be surprised. I'm just guessing what might be the cause. You could send video if yourself! Or you could just ask someone out there to watch you.
The other thing is, you endurance types expect to do activities for way longer than most humans. Most people's arms would start to hurt if they skied 30,40-50 km. and you haven't been a cross country skier for long! What else do you do regularly for 3-4 hours that repeats an upper body/arm action? So, yeah upper body strength/endurance probably has something to do with your arms being sore.

Coach ld, thanks a million, million and a million! I will for sure be getting more lessons, but I just wanted to know if it is normal or not to get tired arms while single poling. Because if it was normal, then I would hold off on more lessons for a bit longer. From your descriptions I think I may not have enough body weight in the pole and may be pulling myself more with the arms (I think my form was not great last weekend as I just came back from a break and I was tired in general). I will focus on your tips this weekend. And yeah, you have a point about trying to use my upper body for a long time when this is so new to me. The XC skiing in combination with my running coach's strength work will slowly turn me into Pippi Långstrump (Longstocking). She was one strong chick!

I was surprised that the coach at Supercamp had us poling with the handle just in front of our shoulders, almost at eye level, and the elbows up with knuckles facing eachother when double poling. Very different arm position than I was used to with arm out a bit more and elbows down, but he explained that uses more core and less tricep.

The coaches at Supercamp disagreed on that. You're talking about Dave, who is a sprinter so his elbows were out to the side. Other coaches explicitly pointed that out as a sprinting technique and said that if you're out for a long ski, you want your elbows close to your body.

I think you're also talking more about double poling . 40 or 50 km of classic skiing is going to be a lot more single poling for a long time so finding a way of rhythmically letting the arms swing a little so there's a (very short) "rest" phase when your pole is not planted, will allow you to go for longer without getting as tired/tight/sore. In either case doing more of it, properly , is going to make you stronger and fatigue less quickly. I think if Carbon keeps putting in the hours like she has been and does with all her endeavours, she' s going to notice that she' s not really feeling her arms fatigue or get sore so easily. It usually happens about February, and you suddenly feel like you can ski forever, effortlessly. Partly because the conditions are good and there is more sunshine, but also because you're just that much stronger by then - provided there is snow to do that. We could be in a bit of trouble here. This weekend doesn't sound like one for putting in lots of klicks here. Drat.

High 16C in Collingwood on Saturday. Unbelievable.

I'm heading out this weekend again for more and will practice my single poling more. Usually I hear people get tired from double poling, but I don't have the problem right now. I hope you are right by feeling good in February because we are signed up for the Canadian Birkiebiner.

Wow! That is going to be cool. I guess you do need to put lots of kms in now then, but it'll pay off by next month when you're in the last half of the Birkie and feeling strong still :)

Helpful thread, thanks coach ld and carbon!

I was out yesterday and focused much more on bending the ankles, committing to the stand and bouncing my body and it all came back to me. I didn't have the issue of tired arms and that was with skiing with 6kg of sand in my backpack. Thanks for your advice Coach ld!